Hunm ... well, as that special someone, it's time for me to chime in.

I don't have much to offer except for a few things for you to think about.

Do you remember changing anything in or on the car, or remember doing anything different at all to the car before it started acting up?

You have a VTEC engagement light that you installed in your dash. Where is it powered from, how does it get its signal, and is there anyway at all that it it might have something to do with your troubles? Could one or more of the connections be faulty? Could it be drawing power, or increasing the load on a critical VTEC system? Not just the led, but the wiring as well; everything that you added for that light, and anything that you had to change to get it to work.

Do you have any other electronic mods that may have (and may still be) interfered with your VTEC system? Maybe these two, "IAB indicator LED, Throttle Controlled A/C Controller"?

Is there anyway to test the circuitry of your ECU? You know, before I ride in on my pale horse (a Satin Silver Metalic horse to be exact - well actually somewhere closer to 170 horses) to save the day, lol.

I know you have probably already though of some or all of that, but if you didn't, then maybe there is something in there that might help.

I just can't fathom the idea of you having a problem with this system ... I mean as compared to my car. Yours is a year older, but you have less mileage ... I don't get it.

 

Good luck....


The thermostat replacement seemed to fix everything, though it did come back once or twice about a year later...when it started getting really cold again. Temps here have gotten well below zero and the issue hasn't returned, so I would say check the thermostat.

I had everything checked/replaced except for the solenoid itself.

 

lol might as well try it! sometimes you have to think outside the box when running out of ideas! It happens to me a lot and you eventually stumble upon something never expected.

 

Latest update...

I tried disconnecting the VTEC indicator LED, no change there.

Any other electronics I've messed with are very unrelated to VTEC, oil, etc. And none of it has changed for quite some time.

I read Dan's entire thread just now, sounds just as annoying as mine. I'm still baffled at how the thermostat could have anything to do with the VTEC system. Granted it won't engage if the engine temp isn't high enough, but that shouldn't cause a CEL.

FWIW my car has no problems with temperature. Thanks to the volatile Houston weather we've had days with temps as low as 35 and high as 75 in the past couple of weeks. In either of the extremes the car warms up just as it should, and temp is normal during daily driving.

Strider has located another ECU I can use to test things out, so I'll be doing that this week. I'll post up the findings after doing that.

If the other ECU doesn't fix the problem, I'll dump another quart of oil in as a $5 shot in the dark. If that doesn't fix it, the stealership will be the next stop. Of course after telling them everything I've done they'll probably be like "uhhhhhh."


Dan, what was that you mentioned about 8yr/80k warranty on the ECU? Where can I find some documentation about that in case I need to make a claim with the dealer?

 

I have been having ramdom CEL 22's on my GSR and finally troubleshooted it to low oil pressure - replaced the oil pump and didn't see much of an improvement. Turns out I had a tiny dent in the oil pan ( the lowest point in the pan is at the pick up) and this was restricting the oil flow to the pump. I never even noticed the dent when I changed the pump. The bottom of it was pressed in maybe 1/4" at the most.

I guess it was not enough to kill the engine as it still runs. I removed the pan and pounded out the dent the best I could and my oil pressure guage indicated I had made quite an improvement, but it still it about 10psi at idle and barely is over 50 at 4400 rpm where the vtec kicks in. I'm going to get one of the Moroso oil pans next.

It might not be your problem, but I'd suggest looking under the car and make sure your oil pan is in good shape on the bottom. You should see the small rectangular shape protruding out where the oil pick up is.

 

You don't need any documentation for the ECU warranty, it's a federal law IIRC.


My code hasn't come back in a while so I'm thinking it's more of a fluke, or is very very intermittent.

 

It might not be your problem, but I'd suggest looking under the car and make sure your oil pan is in good shape on the bottom. You should see the small rectangular shape protruding out where the oil pick up is.

No need to get under there, it's a well known fact that my oil pan has a good scratch & dent in it. But that happened over 7 months prior to any funky VTEC behaviors. It seems unlikely that it's related, but ...

 

Here's an update on the sichiashun...

Last night Trish and I headed out to Strider's place to swap ECUs. I was worried that the immobilizer system would prevent this from working. Some sources say it's just a sender unit near the ignition, others say the ECU itself is programmed with the key's code.

Well, I can confirm that the ECU is, in fact, key specific as well. With the alternate ECU plugged in the little green key light just flashed constantly. The starter would work, and I could hear the fuel pump whirring, but there was definitely no spark. Just for fun (hah) we tried to push start the car a couple of times, but it didn't even do so much as sputter!I was immobilized fo'sho!

With my original ECU plugged back in, we returned to Strider's Lair..err..garage..and just stood around for a moment discussing things.

While standing around, he suddenly noticed an interesting sound from underhood that my car makes. It's something that I've been noticing myself for the past month and a half, and could never really locate it. The best way I can describe it is a "gurgling" sound, but it's pretty hard to hear over the overall engine noise at idle.

All 3 of us were shoving our heads all around the engine bay and could still never agree as to where it was coming from. Then he got the idea of jacking up the car while it was running and got under it...holy hell the noise was louder from below!

In fact, putting one's ear right up near the oil pan, the sound is unmistakably coming from right inside there. So possibly the oil pick up is not well submerged and is sucking in a bit of air here and there? Sounds believable to me.

So we did what my next step was going to be anyway, and that is to add a quart of oil to the engine. Fired it up and the gurgling pretty much went away from what we could tell.

This is where everything comes together...

Let's see...
1) Ruled out everything as a problem cause except for ECU & oil pressure
2) Oil pan is in fact dented in on the bottom
3) Oil level is a bit low (was at min mark on recent check)
4) Adding 1/2 quart a while back made a very minor improvement, but didn't last
5) Gurgling sound comes and goes
6) VTEC engages/disengagues erratically
7) Adding another quart of oil eliminates gurgling
8) Trish points out the gurgling started around the time the VTEC started acting up

At this point the lightbulbs on top of our 3 heads were collectively outshining Strider's 500W work light/space heater. So we headed out to go for a little VTEC test drive, did the 6000rpm cruise test and no CEL, that's good! Did a few pulls to redline in various gears, all smooth and sounded good.


So now my plans are to make sure I keep that oil level close to max until I replace my oil pan and maybe the pickup as well. I will probably install an oil pressure gauge too as knowing the actual pressure can be quite helpful sometimes.

 

I didn't read everything, but I did notice that adding oil helped the problem a little bit. I had the same exact problem on my 00 gsr with itermittent vtec engagement. It turned out to be that my oil was in fact low. I filled it up to the top mark and I never had a problem. If you haven't already tried that I'd suggest it.

 

Quote: mrmad on Feb/11/08It might not be your problem, but I'd suggest looking under the car and make sure your oil pan is in good shape on the bottom. You should see the small rectangular shape protruding out where the oil pick up is.No need to get under there, it's a well known fact that my oil pan has a good scratch & dent in it. But that happened over 7 months prior to any funky VTEC behaviors. It seems unlikely that it's related, but ...

wow gotta love TI... the oil pan sounded plausible but i thought it would take a well put dent in just the right area.. but i never thought you would be able to hear it gurgle? or struggle to suck up oil.. Like the bottom of a empty milk-shake?

 

i don't know but i figured i'd throw it out there.

how many miles are on the engine, it might be possible the oil pump is going out and no providing enough oil pressure at times making it click on and off. just a thought

also i assume you haven't noticed any oil leaks?

 

I pounded out the dent in my oil pan the best I could but I don't think it's anywhere near the original shape. I have a new Type R oil pump and I'm running 20/50 oil just to keep the pressure up. At idle (warmed up) I'm getting about 10psi, and 3000 rpm I'm just over 50, so I'm at the bare minumum for oil pressure specs.

With my oil pressure guage I can see the pressure dip for less then a second when I go around corners so I think the way the oil sloshes around in the bent up pan is effecting how it is getting picked up. This is now on my list of goodies to get for the car

Ebay Moroso Oil Pan

And I'd think I was smart for figuring this out, except I pulled the stupid pan off to replace the oil pump and didn't even notice. I just feel lucky I didn't fry the engine.

 

How much oil is your motor consuming between changes?

 

And that folks, was an accurate retelling of last night's events. (I love it when he tells stories that include me, ha,ha!)

But why did you leave out the part about the Guinness and chili-cheese potato wedges?

That Moroso pan looks pretty nice. Does it have the same dimensions as the stock pan, just with the addition of the special baffles? I haven't bothered to look at a stock one yet, which is why I am asking.

"I was immobilized fo'sho!"- Lol!!

 

Okay fine, there may or may not have been a fake street race followed by some potatoes of death and an adult beverage. But let's keep things on topic

Anyway, yes it was the the bottom of a milkshake I guess, but not so loud.

The car has 67K miles, highly unlikely that the oil pump is going out on me. And after the beating I put on it today I'd say the pump is working fine. There aren't any obvious leaks other than the fact that right around my drain plug area is a little dirty/oily. It probably is leaking a bit from there.

As far as buring oil between changes, it's never been any more than a typical GS-R. It's got to be leaking more than it's burning at this point.

In the past (as long as I've owned the car almost) I've experienced the "VTEC turning off for a second during a HARD turn" like mrmad mentioned. I'm sure it has everything to do with the oil shifting to one side of the pan & away from the pickup. I had considered a baffled pan for that very reason last year after the damage when I was looking at getting a new one.

I've read good and bad things about the Moroso pans...mainly about them leaking after a while. So I'm not totally convinced I should go that route over an OEM one. But lower price with baffle and a temperature bung is tempting.

 

ok oil collectors mess up all the time i had one in my gsr wasnt fun to fix well it was but to the normal person not fun...but mine was cloged from previous owner and he never hit vtec in the car but like 4 or 5 times noob..but as soon as i got on it i noticed vtec didnt engage @ all took it to the lab..and well got to tear her apart i find out the car hasnt had an oil change in year and the oil in it was absolutly trash...and lets just say after a new oil pump and collector the motor lasted until almost 100k miles and started to burn oil pistion rings bad so...if u dont need to replace everything thats a major unit and know it all good and not just guess its ok it costed me about 200 for the whole thing..and well i was pleased with the performance i gaind...