i have the 22mm itr bar on mine and although it is excellent, i feel like 23 would be perfect and 24 too much.

Shocks/springs have a greater affect on how the car handles but if you are just looking to replace your stock piece with something better rather than have a toy car just get any of the 3 above because you still wont be oversteering on a stock suspension. My opinion is that the 23mm JDM ITR bar is perfect.

 

I absolutely love my 23mm,its not too tight where you would spin out, but its enough to give perfect balance to the car

 

I'd say go for the 22mm unless you feel like you need the bigger bar. Going from a 13mm bar to a 22mm is already a huge difference and will improve your handling a lot. If you like oversteer and are comfortable with it go with the 24mm.

 

22

 

23mm /end

 

I love my 23mm sway bar. Feels just right and never had a problem with over steer

 

check out the sticky in the suspension thread on intense learning. There is a very informative post on swaybars.

 

Well hows about an opinion from someone who has had them ALL?

Suspension: PIC Selects 10k/12k (set on full stiff)
Tires: Falken Azenis rt615's 205/50/15
Extra: ASR Subframe reinforcement + Adj. Spherical Enlinks

22mm bar - first upgrade, ran for well over a year with this setup. It was nice, oversteered slightly. hell of a nice upgrade over stock LS swaybar.

23mm bar - second upgrade, ran with this bar for half a season roughly 4 months. Drove a few autoX's with it and road courses and like it but knew instantly almost it was not a big enough change.

24mm ASR bar - Most recent upgrade, been running it for 6 weeks. I have driven the absolute crap out of my car with this bar to find its breaking point as the size made me nervous. Let me just say, contrary to the opinions being expressed this bar is far from over kill. If you have a decently adequate suspension setup then you will love this bar.

BTW Michael Delaney (for us older school members) wrote a whole huge thread on swaybar dynamics and how every 1mm of sway bar increase results in "X%" stiffness. It's full of math and lets you understand what bar best suits your needs.

Me personally, I built my car do go through a corner fast. In doing so I have had to upgrade my RSB 3 times to suit my needs. I may buy the ASR 32mm Hollow bar for raceday purposes as well but we will see. Right now the weak link is my tires so they are gonna be bumped to R-comps!

Hope this helps.

Coles Note: 22 bar = decent ; 23mm = unnoticable difference between this and 22 bar ; 24mm = loads of fun

 

Sweet thanks guys and /or gals for this info!!!! It looks like ill be gettin the ITR 23mm bar!! Soon to come is an ASR rear sub-frame brace!!

 

Well hows about an opinion from someone who has had them ALL?

Suspension: PIC Selects 10k/12k (set on full stiff)
Tires: Falken Azenis rt615's 205/50/15
Extra: ASR Subframe reinforcement + Adj. Spherical Enlinks

22mm bar - first upgrade, ran for well over a year with this setup. It was nice, oversteered slightly. hell of a nice upgrade over stock LS swaybar.

23mm bar - second upgrade, ran with this bar for half a season roughly 4 months. Drove a few autoX's with it and road courses and like it but knew instantly almost it was not a big enough change.

24mm ASR bar - Most recent upgrade, been running it for 6 weeks. I have driven the absolute crap out of my car with this bar to find its breaking point as the size made me nervous. Let me just say, contrary to the opinions being expressed this bar is far from over kill. If you have a decently adequate suspension setup then you will love this bar.

Coles Note: 22 bar = decent ; 23mm = unnoticable difference between this and 22 bar ; 24mm = loads of fun

There's a reason your 24 performed that much better. If you had a 22 and a 23 with no SFB then you added both, you can't attribute all the change to just one of those elements.

Also, the OP hasn't specified what type of driving is done. DD? Touge? AutoX? Track? Everyone is going to say something different but if the guy just likes to take the occasional turn hard that's different than if he's at the track every weekend.

 

Quote: 2LDC2K on Aug/25/09Well hows about an opinion from someone who has had them ALL?
Suspension: PIC Selects 10k/12k (set on full stiff)
Tires: Falken Azenis rt615's 205/50/15
Extra: ASR Subframe reinforcement + Adj. Spherical Enlinks

22mm bar - first upgrade, ran for well over a year with this setup. It was nice, oversteered slightly. hell of a nice upgrade over stock LS swaybar.

23mm bar - second upgrade, ran with this bar for half a season roughly 4 months. Drove a few autoX's with it and road courses and like it but knew instantly almost it was not a big enough change.

24mm ASR bar - Most recent upgrade, been running it for 6 weeks. I have driven the absolute crap out of my car with this bar to find its breaking point as the size made me nervous. Let me just say, contrary to the opinions being expressed this bar is far from over kill. If you have a decently adequate suspension setup then you will love this bar.

Coles Note: 22 bar = decent ; 23mm = unnoticable difference between this and 22 bar ; 24mm = loads of fun



There's a reason your 24 performed that much better. If you had a 22 and a 23 with no SFB then you added both, you can't attribute all the change to just one of those elements.

Also, the OP hasn't specified what type of driving is done. DD? Touge? AutoX? Track? Everyone is going to say something different but if the guy just likes to take the occasional turn hard that's different than if he's at the track every weekend.

nowhere in his post did he say the ASR brace was used only with the 24mm bar. your assumption that the brace made all the difference is just that...an assumption. what does make a difference is bushing material, sway bar size and attachment points.

 

IMO, i would say to get the RSB as the same time as your 23mm sway bar, if you do some tracking or autoX. I heard that the stock RSB may not be able to handle the stress of the 23mm sway bar. But again, that depends on your driving style

 

Quote: tlangy on Aug/25/09Quote: 2LDC2K on Aug/25/09Well hows about an opinion from someone who has had them ALL? Suspension: PIC Selects 10k/12k (set on full stiff)
Tires: Falken Azenis rt615's 205/50/15
Extra: ASR Subframe reinforcement + Adj. Spherical Enlinks

22mm bar - first upgrade, ran for well over a year with this setup. It was nice, oversteered slightly. hell of a nice upgrade over stock LS swaybar.

23mm bar - second upgrade, ran with this bar for half a season roughly 4 months. Drove a few autoX's with it and road courses and like it but knew instantly almost it was not a big enough change.

24mm ASR bar - Most recent upgrade, been running it for 6 weeks. I have driven the absolute crap out of my car with this bar to find its breaking point as the size made me nervous. Let me just say, contrary to the opinions being expressed this bar is far from over kill. If you have a decently adequate suspension setup then you will love this bar.

Coles Note: 22 bar = decent ; 23mm = unnoticable difference between this and 22 bar ; 24mm = loads of fun



There's a reason your 24 performed that much better. If you had a 22 and a 23 with no SFB then you added both, you can't attribute all the change to just one of those elements.

Also, the OP hasn't specified what type of driving is done. DD? Touge? AutoX? Track? Everyone is going to say something different but if the guy just likes to take the occasional turn hard that's different than if he's at the track every weekend.



nowhere in his post did he say the ASR brace was used only with the 24mm bar. your assumption that the brace made all the difference is just that...an assumption. what does make a difference is bushing material, sway bar size and attachment points.

Wow! Glad someone was paying attention.

What made you think I only had the SRB kit for the 24mm bar? If you check my log you will see I have had the ASR BEFORE I even started upgrading bars. I'm not new to subframe tearout so yea I planned ahead.

As stated what makes the difference is bushing material (oem/hardened PU/spehircal) as well where the attachment points are for suspension geometry and last but not least the size of bar will add to the desired effect.

I laid out my original post as it seemed I am the only one to run the ASR 24mm bar (posting in this thread) and gave the most logical comparison points as the oNLY variable that changed was the size of my RSB. Now all that being said, I still have a 22mm bar that I am going to be doing some heads up testing with in the new season..back to back lapping trials both Solo 1 and Solo 2 and will give an updated review based on my findings.

 

Honestly, I don't see much of a difference in anything above 21, but I guess it is really depending on which brand your getting and what your uses are.

 

Honestly, I don't see much of a difference in anything above 21, but I guess it is really depending on which brand your getting and what your uses are.

You don't "see" the difference or you can't tell/feel the difference when you drive?
Because every mm makes a difference

 

Great info on someone who has ran all 3 bars !

Well hows about an opinion from someone who has had them ALL?

Suspension: PIC Selects 10k/12k (set on full stiff)
Tires: Falken Azenis rt615's 205/50/15
Extra: ASR Subframe reinforcement + Adj. Spherical Enlinks

22mm bar - first upgrade, ran for well over a year with this setup. It was nice, oversteered slightly. hell of a nice upgrade over stock LS swaybar.

23mm bar - second upgrade, ran with this bar for half a season roughly 4 months. Drove a few autoX's with it and road courses and like it but knew instantly almost it was not a big enough change.

24mm ASR bar - Most recent upgrade, been running it for 6 weeks. I have driven the absolute crap out of my car with this bar to find its breaking point as the size made me nervous. Let me just say, contrary to the opinions being expressed this bar is far from over kill. If you have a decently adequate suspension setup then you will love this bar.

BTW Michael Delaney (for us older school members) wrote a whole huge thread on swaybar dynamics and how every 1mm of sway bar increase results in "X%" stiffness. It's full of math and lets you understand what bar best suits your needs.

Me personally, I built my car do go through a corner fast. In doing so I have had to upgrade my RSB 3 times to suit my needs. I may buy the ASR 32mm Hollow bar for raceday purposes as well but we will see. Right now the weak link is my tires so they are gonna be bumped to R-comps!

Hope this helps.

Coles Note: 22 bar = decent ; 23mm = unnoticable difference between this and 22 bar ; 24mm = loads of fun

 

I need to replace my rear sway bar because my stock LS rsb is all rusted out. I dont know wether to go ITR 22mm, 23mm, or the ASR 24mm. I do plan on gettin a sub-frame brace in the "near" future too. Any suggestions?

It all depends on your setup now and your driving preference.

What wheels and tires are you racing on?

What are you doing with the car?

What spring rates are on the front and back?

If you're already lifting a rear inside, you've maxed out the forward weight transfer and will have to dial in the rest of the rotational behavior with alignment, pressures, and tire sizes.

It also depends greatly on the end links and mounted sway bar angle. What I do like a lot about the ASR setup is how it pushes the axis back slightly giving it a nearly 90* angle mid stroke to the end links(if they're adjustable.)

But, an OEM 22 or 23 will get the job done as well; allowing you to go closer to 0 toe in the rear. But this behavior(assuming the rest of the setup is relative) is for a pretty aggressive track car and up to the drivers preference.

I think the most important part will be making sure the angles are all correct, specifically the sway bars rotation axis placement(keep in mind where the OEM 14mm is placed) and being able to adjust them with adjustable end links to make sure you sway bar isn't adding to much to your static spring rates.

 

Quote: ATegNamedXyla on Dec/31/09Honestly, I don't see much of a difference in anything above 21, but I guess it is really depending on which brand your getting and what your uses are.

You don't "see" the difference or you can't tell/feel the difference when you drive?
Because every mm makes a difference

This is what I was referring to in my original post.

Also, this article needs to be updated to include the ASR 24mm option and 32mm option

 

And the other thing to think about with swaybars is that it's not only the diameter which makes a difference, but also the lengths of the moment arms/where it attaches etc. Look at the ASR 24mm and the Progress 24mm bars for example:

ASR:

Progress 24mm:

Notice how the Progress mounts at the shock mount farther 'out' on the LCA whereas the ASR mounts to the OE sway bar mounting point. This changes what is known as the motion ratio of the swaybar which is the relation between how far the wheels travel up and down to the distance the swaybar tilts up and down. This value ranges anywhere from 0-1. The wheel rate of the sway bar (effective springrate at the wheel) is the spring rate of the bar times the motion ratio squared.

By mounting the bar out at the shock, the motion ratio increases from roughly .55 to .8 IE the progress adds another 36% to the wheel rate opposed to the ASR given design was equivalent (it's not...the progress has shorter 'lever arms' which also increase the effectiveness of the bar).

 

And the other thing to think about with swaybars is that it's not only the diameter which makes a difference, but also the lengths of the moment arms/where it attaches etc. Look at the ASR 24mm and the Progress 24mm bars for example:

ASR:

Progress 24mm:

Notice how the Progress mounts at the shock mount farther 'out' on the LCA whereas the ASR mounts to the OE sway bar mounting point. This changes what is known as the motion ratio of the swaybar which is the relation between how far the wheels travel up and down to the distance the swaybar tilts up and down. This value ranges anywhere from 0-1. The wheel rate of the sway bar (effective springrate at the wheel) is the spring rate of the bar times the motion ratio squared.

By mounting the bar out at the shock, the motion ratio increases from roughly .55 to .8 IE the progress adds another 36% to the wheel rate opposed to the ASR given design was equivalent (it's not...the progress has shorter 'lever arms' which also increase the effectiveness of the bar).

SGT,
I really don't understand your last statement on the Progress lca mount location. So it simple terms does this lengthening of the lever arm, which would increase the Torque of the lever actually increase the "stiffness" of the bar or lower the "stiffness" compared to the ASR bar with identical diameters? Thank You

 

Quote: offcamber on Dec/31/09Quote: tlangy on Aug/25/09Quote: 2LDC2K on Aug/25/09Well hows about an opinion from someone who has had them ALL?Suspension: PIC Selects 10k/12k (set on full stiff) Tires: Falken Azenis rt615's 205/50/15
Extra: ASR Subframe reinforcement + Adj. Spherical Enlinks

22mm bar - first upgrade, ran for well over a year with this setup. It was nice, oversteered slightly. hell of a nice upgrade over stock LS swaybar.

23mm bar - second upgrade, ran with this bar for half a season roughly 4 months. Drove a few autoX's with it and road courses and like it but knew instantly almost it was not a big enough change.

24mm ASR bar - Most recent upgrade, been running it for 6 weeks. I have driven the absolute crap out of my car with this bar to find its breaking point as the size made me nervous. Let me just say, contrary to the opinions being expressed this bar is far from over kill. If you have a decently adequate suspension setup then you will love this bar.

Coles Note: 22 bar = decent ; 23mm = unnoticable difference between this and 22 bar ; 24mm = loads of fun



There's a reason your 24 performed that much better. If you had a 22 and a 23 with no SFB then you added both, you can't attribute all the change to just one of those elements.

Also, the OP hasn't specified what type of driving is done. DD? Touge? AutoX? Track? Everyone is going to say something different but if the guy just likes to take the occasional turn hard that's different than if he's at the track every weekend.



nowhere in his post did he say the ASR brace was used only with the 24mm bar. your assumption that the brace made all the difference is just that...an assumption. what does make a difference is bushing material, sway bar size and attachment points.


Wow! Glad someone was paying attention.

What made you think I only had the SRB kit for the 24mm bar? If you check my log you will see I have had the ASR BEFORE I even started upgrading bars. I'm not new to subframe tearout so yea I planned ahead.

As stated what makes the difference is bushing material (oem/hardened PU/spehircal) as well where the attachment points are for suspension geometry and last but not least the size of bar will add to the desired effect.

I laid out my original post as it seemed I am the only one to run the ASR 24mm bar (posting in this thread) and gave the most logical comparison points as the oNLY variable that changed was the size of my RSB. Now all that being said, I still have a 22mm bar that I am going to be doing some heads up testing with in the new season..back to back lapping trials both Solo 1 and Solo 2 and will give an updated review based on my findings.

I honestly looked back at the whole thread twice and have no idea why i said that lol. Reading fail.

OH! i see what it was. i confused the OP's post when he said 24mm ASR sway, i thought he said 24mm AND ASR SFB.

so, i retract all previous

statements.

 

It increases the arm length, so the actual bar moving inch per inch is less stiff than say that of the ASR bar (the 'stiffness decreases proportionally to something like 1/moment arm^3) ....BUT we aren't looking at the stiffness of the bar, we want to look at the stiffness of the bar at the wheel...

The actual stiffness of the bar at the wheel (ie wheel rate) is calculated using the following equation

wheel rate = spring rate (stiffness of the sway bar) / leverage of the wheel on the bar^2

So if we say that the moment arm increases at the same rate of the leverage increases, we can simplify this as:

delta wheel rate ~ distance ^ 1.666666

 

yo malhon just a little off topic but i love your asr brace lov the color but your also running the 24mm asr bar as well correct?

 

in other words, the progress bar is more affective than the asr bar with the same diameter.

 

im in the mist of wnating a upgrade sway bar from the stock gsr. Does anyone have a link to where i can purchase the itr 22mm or 23mm with bushings, also the link to ASR subframe.

Can i reuse my endlinks or do i need to upgrade for the bigger swaybar?

thanks