[MikeSarrGSR]

Hey Guys,

Well... no doubt I have been missing my teg. For the last couple months I had been battling the knocky/clacky sound in the motor that was getting progressively worse. on 8/8 I felt the vibration coming through the pedals so I knew the condition was worsening. It finally began to bog down and choke on itself, stalling. I parked it and this week has been amazing. Everything that needed to happen to get my car back on the road has happened in short order.

Finances (check)
Parts (check)
car to drive so I can still work (check)
buyer for my camera equipment so I dont go broke (check)
more work (check)
tech buddy's availabilty and enthusiasm for project (check)

I found a 12K used 2000 GSR head which I needed due to galled cam and head/cap bearing surfaces. I also aquired this and a 01 NEW ITR shortblock for $3500. They were both here in Orlando and I got lucky. I have ITR Yellow/Portflow inner springs with Skunk Ti retainers which I will transfer to this head. I aquired the ITR LMAs as well. I plan on using the stock HG which will yeild about 10.8-11:1 with the Head/Block. I bought NGK
PFR5G-11s, Timing belt, tensioner, ARP head studs, new valve and cam seals, mugen thermostat and thermoswitch. I was thrilled to find out that the ITR block has a filter mounted oil cooler also

I figure this motor combo broken in well on GSR cams at 16 degrees will net about 155+ and 120+ on the dyno with a great 5250 mark. Hopefully 115+ on stock GSR intake, header and ITR axleback. I think the next thing would be to change my driving habits a bit and baby the car for 10K, then add a JDM or USDM ITR tranny with JDM final drive. The Hytech system would be something of beauty with this motor. I figure one step at a time will get me there. I will have pix of this whole thing. If anyone wants a project GSR block and head with fresh GSR cams along with the set of CTR cams and skunk2 cogs... I will let all the sl*g go for $500 to a taker in the Central Florida Area.

 

[1FSTGSR]

Hey MikeSarrGSR
Nice to hear people do have good luck and perfect timing. Last night I came to the dreadful realization that I have the terrible knocking sound of a main bearing failure. I too will be following a path similar to yours with the ITR short block. Unfortunately I just don't have the finances at this time. Maybe in November.
I'm curious about your set-up how will you get enough fuel? Is it possible to run this engine with a stock GSR ECU? I won't be able to do the head on my car any time soon so it will still run on the GSR cams.

 

[MichaelDelaney]

USDM ITR pistons with the smaller GSR head will yield 11:1 CR with a stock 3 layer head gasket, as long as the head has not been resurfaced or milled and the block hasn't been decked.

Why did you choose a warmer heat range? why #5 plugs? Should have gotten PFR6G11's 6 heat range...the 5's are for the LS and a nonperformance setup LS at that.You forgot the water pump.

BTW there's a proper break-in procedure article. 10W30 NoNsynthetic for the first 1000 miles to let the bearings and rings seat properly and then switch to 10W40 synthetic...I suggest Amsoil or Redline....if you have to use 10W30 Mobil 1 and never 5W30 Mobil 1 on a daily driver in the summer. Change every 4000 miles like it's a religion or the oil will sludge in your block causing future rebuild costs to escalate. Mobil 1 5W30 only for race weekends and for no more than 2000 miles.

 

[MichaelDelaney]

of course for you people living in places that get snow, 5W30 Mobil1 is fine all winter with a 4000 mile change but when you get into the warmer climates, it becomes a 20 weight oil and breaks down fast by 2000 miles.

 

[Louse76]

Uh oh, I was getting ready to change my oil to Mobil 1 5w30 tomorrow (I got the last set of tri-syn in the store). Using the same now, but 10w30. I'm in FL, so its a little hot, but cooler temperatures should be coming soon. I'm also without VTEC in my RS. Will it be ok for the normal duration of 4k miles, or shall I be changing earlier from what you said?

Also, I've heard mixed things about the new "supersyn" from mobil1. At first they were all terrible, but I heard you say that it has more detergents etc... So what is the final verdict? From the things I heard a while back on honda-acura.net, I was thinking of changing to another brand because of it.

Thanks!

 

[MichaelDelaney]

the independent test of oil done on Mobil1 tri-synth 5W30 in a Toyota engine at 2300 miles showed that it had the viscosity of a 20 weight oil. Now Mobil1 Supersyn has an added wear package compared to the tri-synth but I presume the base oil is the same or similar. I may be wrong. It really did not make me feel all that enthusiastic about buying 5W30 if you know what I mean.

If you already purchased it, then just be aware of the fact that you may want to play it safe and do a 10W30 change at 2000 miles.

 

[1FSTGSR]

MD, I still would like to know if the stock GSR ECU would be able to run an ITR block with a GSR head? With the new block I would have an compression increase from 10:1 to 11:1 about 10%. I suspect this set-up would not have 10% more air flow thus requiring 10% more fuel. For 1 point of compression increase about 4% more power, right. With the colder plugs and detarding the timing will a GSR ECU work?

 

[MichaelDelaney]

yep, it'll run. you have to run a vacuum line up to the IAB to have the IM secondaries open. Get the Helms manual and get the GSR parts that connect the IAB (like the IAB control solenoid valve and IAB vacuum tank/check valve ). If you are removing the GSR IM secondary butterflies, or don't want them to operate (keeping all 8 runners open all the time) , or plan to use the Skunk2 single stage IM, then you won't need these parts. If you are running stock GSR cams I highly recommend using the secondaries and getting the parts I listed....

 

[MichaelDelaney]

actually for a 1 point CR increase you can see as much as 10% if you fuel tune correctly. You can run 16 degrees BTDC stock spark timing to start. You don't have to retard or delay the spark timing. 11:1 is still within Bseries stock. The JDM ITR is 11:1 CR.

 

[MikeSarrGSR]

Update on weekend project:

MD, my mechanic recommended that I use 5-30w for the first 1000mi then to so to synthetic, Amsoil was my suggestion. I like the 0-30 TCO. I went to Acura and I researched the platinum spark plugs that come in the GSR and ITR. I purchased the plug listed for the 01 ITR. This was the (I typed it wrong) PFR6G-11 NGK platinum. The water pump came on the new shortblock from the factory 22-T just like the GSR so, I didnt change. We pulled the C1, took everything off the GSR and began to make note of the differences.

The head isnt milled, no nothin... stock head gasket. I will have pics to post of all of this soon. I had some serious issues with my previous setup. I remember advice I was given by Larry about using ITR LMAs with my CTR cams in the GSR head. I heeded no warning, I continued on. He warned that the valvetrain could bind if the LMAs get stuck and this could break a spring or cause some similar damage.

We have yet to break down the whole motor, we pulled the head and it was very clean. No deposits, some detonation on 2 and 3 pistons. I ran high cylinder pressures from advanced timing and agressive cam settings all the time for over 8K. When rebuilding my new head with new seals and transferring the springs over, I noticed that one of my portflow inner springs had BROKEN. This led me to a rumor I had heard of this, yet I know the advice I did not heed. Bottom line, my motor is ready for a rebuild and the new motor is going in the car.

I decided to axe the Portflow inner springs, retain the use of the GSR/ITR blue moved down for the exhaust spring set and Re-install my ITR yellow inners with the outers I had already. I figure this with the skunk2 retainer I already have it will be adequate to run a maximum of skunk2 stage 1 cams to 8500rpm. I had alot of confidence in the Portflow inner spring, yet I also know that I may have contributed to this part failing. I also feel that this part may had been part and parcel to engine failure as the sounds I heard degraded. We installed ITR LMAs and I retained all the parts from my GSR block for the IAB and the stock IM, PCV system, etc. We also created a "T" out of copper tubing to bridge the supply side of the water pipe to feed the heater and oil cooler. Chris is waiting on me in the AM to deliver the other valvesprings so we can finish the head and install it on the block and build it up. I purchased ARP head bolts and even though I dont know if I will need it or not, a mugen thermo and switch. My mech is very-anti aftermarket so he wants to see the engine work with stock parts first. We will see... more than likely this experience of seeing the broken valvespring in there about to rebuild will make me more conservative until I know my engine is safe.

It is my intention to break the engine is good running stock cams until I feel comfortable with an upgrade. I see this happening in about 6mo. Right now, my car needs to be a car first...fun toy later

there will be another time soon where it will be both again.

Mike

 

[MikeSarrGSR]

Engine is in, install is clean and happy. 150 miles in, no leaks, heat is normal, timing set to 16 driving between idle and 6K. Car seems like it makes good torque. More to come. Aftermarket hell claimed the soul
of my clutch and motor, and a broken valvespring... my motor was beat up... this new one... be nice to...

 

[1FSTGSR]

MikeSarrGSR: What ECU are you running this car on? Also what was damaged in your engine block? What were the major changes from the GSR block to the ITR block that caused a problem, if any? I'm glad to hear that another teg is back on the road again. By the way how did you beat up the last engine so much? Drag, autocross, just hard driving?

 

[MikeSarrGSR]

Thanks for the word of encouragement it took alot of patience and hard work.

hard driving, learning, bad tuning, too much timing, changing the type of lube too many times, too much heat caused by overlooking a bypass cutoff with a hondata gasket which is now drilled, cam cog misunderstanding for 4K drove on doubled cam timing settings, loss in oil pressure due to failed cam bearing caps from over torquing, when cam froze the head damage started a downhill slope, blowby past rings, high oil temperatures, racing every car that tried me on the street... bent and replaced valves twice this year...
belive it or not, I have learned alot.

The ECU is a 99 GSR, the midrange power is beginning to come in as I am at almost 300 miles. Driving between 2 and 6K varying throttle and rpm, the motor should set in stronger than my car was with slightly less compression running CTR cams and C1 bottom end.

I estimate a baseline dyno at 2500 or 5000mi of 158/125 with 123 at 5250 on stock GSR cams and 11:1 motor, stock intake with cold charge air tube,stock header and ITR Muffler. Timing will be untouched until here where I would run 18deg and 0,0 cams unless I choose to run the adjustables again.

dont understand this question: What were the major changes from the GSR block to the ITR block that caused a problem, if any?

Mike

 

[1FSTGSR]

When you changed from the GSR block to the ITR block, did every thing bolt where it was suppose too? Where all the hoses long enough?

 

[MikeSarrGSR]

yea man, everything is plug and play except the lines for the oil cooler. we fabricated a copper "T" to run between the GSR water pipe and heater core. this supply line is larger than that for the ITR, thus we justified that approach. the sensors plug right in, the dowl pins up top are the same and everything. the easiest "frankenstien" you can make but not the cheapest. we chose to use the ARP head studs and a stock head gasket. the car for stock cams is VERY strong. I wasnt expecting anything more than a stock GSR feel and I inherited much more torque than I thought. I estimate
at least 120 at 5250 or more, I havent seen peak numbers yet I can only guess. I am very happy with the motor. The only thing is the IACV is funky and 14 flashes up every so often.

 

[boobstar]

man where did u find this motor at i need a new motor asap for my 99 gsr. if anyone can help let me know.

 

[MichaelDelaney]

ever see Alice and Wonderland and the rabbit running around screaming "I'm late,I'm going to be late, I'm going to be late....". Then he jumps in the rabbit hole and Alice follows him?

well when I see these "Help!!! I need this ASAP!! Need info by tomorrow" posts, all I can think is: man you are about to go down the rabbit hole and in for looooonnnnng journey ahead with a lot of surprises....

good luck

 

[MikeSarrGSR]

i got super lucky finding the shortblock and the head when it was time for me to shop for them. luckily, a shop here in Orlando I deal with had them both. Try auto salvage places for the head and look for either a new or used GSR or ITR shortblock. The swap took 3 days and it was hard to focus on anything else but that for the last couple. Time to return from the rabbit hole I am in myself and back to responsibilities...

 

[JustinKlemgold]

Hey MD, someone told me that engines are already broken in from the factory before they even get put in the car. I found that hard to believe. I don't think they could simulate road conditions and such at the factory. I also thought of the article you wrote on this site about breaking in the engine.

If I ever got a new engine, i would break it in as this site recommends, I just wanted to get your input on this...thanks

 

[MikeSarrGSR]

this one had no oil in it, there was nothing to drain. I doubt it was ran at all besides cranking by hand to see if there was any resistance. the thing was like silk when we cranked it by hand while building it up