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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hey everyone, ive got an ls b18b that i would like to get a little more horsepower out of. ive read over some of the forms that have dealt with the topic, Engine Package: swapping parts for power was particularly helpful. but my question is more about in everyones hands on expierience what parts work best together.

what i want out of my ls is a little more horsepower and reliablility before i turbo it this summer. i dont want to have to resleeve the engine so i only want to bore up to 82 mm at most. im going to keep the crank the same

i want to spend somewhere around $2000 and without the turbo get somewhere in the range of 140-150whp and this car is strickly going to be something for fun, maybe some stop light pulls but definatly nothing at the track.

another thing is that i might do an ls/VTEC conversion, so when it comes to options, sugestions for both a VTEC and non-VTEC head would be appreciated. so really what im asking is, for what is going to be a turbo b18b what would be a good combination of:

Cams
rods
pistons
anything else that i should upgrade

hope i provided enough information, any sugestions would be appreciated, thanks.
 

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150whp is easily attainable with ls/vtec but i don't recommend it with boost. If you that inexpereinced and want ot do this your self don't even mess with LS/vtec. Just boost it it'll be cheaper and more reliable in the future. as far as internals do a compression test what is your goal of HP after boost. can't answer your questions without that. If your only going for only like 210-230 hp you don't need forged internals. you can even do that on stock CR. If your wnat like 250-300 whp you could stick with stock internals but i don't recommend it you need at atleast 2 3/4" exhaust. a t3/t4 hyrbid turbo down pipe. Forged rods and pistons. Do not mess with your cams unless you put turbo cams in. PUtting more agressive N/A cams in will hurt you with boost due to overlapping. Before all of this you need to upgrade your suspension and drive train. like clutch flywheel. If you goal is over 270 whp you'll also need new axles. bigger injectors. engine management. and the most important part a good tune
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
well when thinking about what i want after turboing, id like to achieve somewhere around 250+whp, basically i want the car to be able to move and maybe get low 14's high 13's if i ran 1/4 mile. another question though, if i want to achieve that hp goal can i simply get forged pistons/rods and not worry about boreing out the block?

i guess i just feel as though if im going to be doing work on the motor why not beef it up in the process.

another thing, how much will head work help, as in porting/springs/retainers and such?

more sugestions about what brand pistons/rods/cams would be appreciated, thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
sorry i guess i wasnt as clear as i should have been, without the turbo id like maybe 150-160 whp, with the turbo somewhere upwards of 250 maybe more, but i dont want to make this a FI topic, i just would like to know what pistons/rods would be a good choice with the block to maybe gain a little horsepower, and if boreing out the block would be a good choice, but defiantly allow the engine to be able to handle the turbo later on without any trouble. thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
no offense, but from what i know about turboing, and engines, if i plan to make 250+whp, i dont think stock internals on a b18 are a good choice. however i may stand corrected.
 

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A lot of novices have this notion that you can do something for now that will somehow work for an entirely different setup later on in the future.

the problem is if you are buying for the eventual setup (eg. turbo) it may not work with your interim setup (i.e. NA).

adding a part doesn't sort of add power on it's own. it may make power in the final eventual setup but lose power in the interim setup.

parts interact or have to work with other parts together. it isn't isolated on it own and doesn't have it's own "effect".


the way people plan for a turbo build up is that they list a target hp goal (which you have done) and then calculate the boost needed to get that target hp within the piping that the turbo has to run (eg. effect of boost drop across intake and intercooler).

they choose a turbo size that suits their use (daily driver with good response vs trailer queen with all out boost and power as the more important characteristic over less lag).


you can run less boost with higher CR or more boost at lower CR. it depends on where you want the effective net cylinder pressure to be.

if say you drop 10:1 CR pistons in for the eventual goal it has to work with your current stock cams. it may run well NA in the interim or it may be undercammed but it limits how much boost you can run later on depending on your tuning ability. will there be a high enough boost to meet 250 whp later on?

if you drop in 8.7:1 CR pistons, you may be able to run more boost in the eventual setup but the interim NA setup will suffer in performance with your stock cams.

are you planning to port the intake choke ports on the b18b head?

work out the boost needed to make 250 whp first with the pressure drop if you run an intercooler.

then you'll know what CR (i.e. which pistons) that you need to run with that boost


but to ask for 150 whp before a turbo is being a bit obtuse.

you're not changing the head's breathing. How are you going to do that from a bottom end build up and still get the CR right for the turbo later on ? you can't.
 

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what are you talking about 250 whp is nothing for stock internals it's all in the tune. You could get 300 whp with a proper tune. There's people pushing that kinda power on stock internals. Just upgrade your head to flow better and get a tune. Man if you're pushing 250 whp you'll be in the low high 13's if you know hwo to drive. 300 whp and a good suspension will get you into the mid-low 13's all depends on your skills. But if you're goal is only 250 whp. You only need a decent turbo 2.5" exhaust tuning and head work. before all this get a leakdown and compression test to see what kinda condition the motor is in. Don't even waste your money with Ls/Vtec that is a very precise and expensive job if you don't have money and know somebody skilled enough to do it. that is probably the one thing you can't half ass
 

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I don't know what you guys are debating here.

there's 2 separate issues:

1. are you asking whether a stock bottom end internals can handle the loads created by 250 whp from boost?

or

2. are you asking whether stock bottom end internals can withstand a detonation hit once you go to the boost level needed for 250 whp?

there's a difference.

people upgrade their bottom end so that it can handle a hit and not have major damage like a holed block which is a write off. if you get detonation and the bottom end is able to take it, the amount of damage is limited and you only have to replace a limited amount of parts rather than the entire block.

I really don't know what you mean by "stock internals is nothing for 250 whp" or "it's not a good idea to go with stock internals with 250 whp". Do you know why people upgrade them?
 

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If you are looking to spend under $2000 on a bullet proof engine that is setup for turbo i am practically giving mine away HERE

I built this setup spending about 5-6 grand with install but have no use for it anymore b/c i bought an IS300.

BTW it put down 133whp for having 9:1 pistons and i can also include my hondata for you to dial in whatever setup you choose to go with.
 

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MichaelDelaney on Feb/08/06 said:
the gain from 120 whp stock to 133 whp NA was from your displacement change to 2L. I don't think you would've seen the same gain had you kept it at 1.8L and dropped in 9:1 CR forged pistons only.

what boost level were you planning to run on this motor ?
Well the pistons are virtually the same as the LS so with the bore change +3mm and the static compression going up made the change in HP. I think my car ran 109whp stock so i saw a gain of 24whp at 6,500 rpm. Also the increased flow helped a tad because i had my head port and polised. So i figured the gains were reasonable and expected. I was planning on running as low as a bar or as high as 17-18psi using hondata to tune.
 

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I wanted it to be clear to the buyer that your gains were not due to the bottom end (i.e. gains were from headporting and larger displacement created).

to create power you either have to have an increase in air delivery or volume (displacement change) or better burn.

changing to forged pistons alone at the same bore and dome volume doesn't create power.

it was a point made for understanding and clarity. after all, this thread is supposed to be about bottom end modifications on a b18b right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
ok let me answer some questions, all the information is really helpful though

i understand that stock internals CAN handle 250whp, but thats not what im asking, after i turbo the car i dont want to have to worry about anything major breaking, i dont need to gain any extra horsepower without the turbo im simply wanting to upgrade internals so that it can handle a hit.

so to michael its issue 2 that im interested about.

let me restate my question. i want to make somewhere between 250-270whp, but i want it to last. i dont want to worry about stuff breaking. its going to be a daily driver, so what if anything should i upgrade on the head/block to make the engine stronger and last? id rather do whatever i need to now, instead of worrying about whats going to happen later. thanks for all the help guys

TheFifthSpeed i might consider that
 

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we're into specifics now Matt.

you have to know what boost level you're going to need to get that 250.

that then dictates your piston choice.

this isn't a 1 size fits all deal. you have to think ahead a bit here.


you have to do the exercise to get the right answer for the forged piston.

aftermarket rods, rod bearings, main bearings, rod bolts, head studs are a given.

I suggest a GSR girdle/oil pan & pickup with this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
well, i think i would like to boost somewhere around 14psi. im defiantly thinking hondata as a standalone and from what ive been reading updating the head sounds like a good choice as well?

sugestions for pistons and rods running that amount of boost? as well as turbo cams? thanks.
 

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blinteg on Feb/09/06 said:
well, i think i would like to boost somewhere around 14psi. im defiantly thinking hondata as a standalone and from what ive been reading updating the head sounds like a good choice as well?

sugestions for pistons and rods running that amount of boost? as well as turbo cams? thanks.
Piston choice depends on clearences. I chose to go with JE pistons (84mm 9:1)because i liked thier silcon content. As far as rods go best bang for your buck are the eagles. They seems to fit and work well with any setup be it NA or FI. As far as cams go i would stay away from them for the time being, you can always put them in later. If you plan on cracking open the block concentrate on that stuff first. You can always drop in a set of cams w/o pulling the motor apart. And hondata is a very great setup, i would say best pound for pound seeing how inexpensive it is. Just make sure you have someone who can tune it, i live in central CA and only have 2 shops that tune hondata for me within a 100mile radius.
 

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blinteg on Feb/09/06 said:
well, i think i would like to boost somewhere around 14psi. im defiantly thinking hondata as a standalone and from what ive been reading updating the head sounds like a good choice as well?

sugestions for pistons and rods running that amount of boost? as well as turbo cams? thanks.
D'OH!!! Don't get into that PSI boost number to determine the amount and usage of power that you're trying to acheive. (You were just starting to get it). It's not really the UPGRADES you need to worry about. It's more like the little areas of maintainence that need to be performed first. There are many people that have 250whp on LS engines with the OEM STOCK BLOCK, but the engine management, and small maintainence details were paid attention to First and foremost.

1. Compression and leakdown tests. TEST BEFORE YOU INVEST

2. New OEM fuel filter

3. Better copper plugs (Iridiums, and all the expensive stuff really isn't necessary. It isn't whiskey, so don't waste your money)

4. Upgraded clutch and flywheel. Break it in and get used to it now for the new build.

5. Slightly larger injectors should be installed oNLY when you're ready to put the kit together.
6. Valve adjustments/lash

7. An upgraded 255lph pump would also help, and can still work NA for now.

8. Good plug wires. You don't even have to be fancy, OEM is fine.

9. Make sure your radiator and coolant are up to par. If the stock flows well, keep it. Make sure there's no cracks or bad hoses to worry about.

10. Brakes. Lest we forget, must we slow down well after going fast? Are the brakes ok? no fade on the pads or warped rotors? People forget the simple stuff all the time.

Simple but effective work best..
 
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