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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
****Pics added at this thread My B20Z Pics****

ok. Now i've searched and read over and over again. Lets see if i'm understanding

First off, I have a B20Z on its way, with 23k miles on it got it for $900 shipped. I'm extremely excited. Right now my plans are just to go NA and then after school is all done to get turbo. Now i know your gonna say its a waste of money to go NA right now but i dont really care i want to experience different things and get experience working on both.

With that out of the way, I've read about the LS Intake mani first off. As MD said, it would choke off my top end power, correct? and as with the header with the 2" collector. I'd be best in going with the 2.5" collector or even 3" all the way? I have big plans for this NA. Its going to get PnP'd, sleeved, fully built top and bottom. So going with 3" exhaust the whole way would be best, now i couldnt use my current Apex'i N1 could i? That kinda makes me sad because I love it, yet could i step up to the bigger sized N1 and be good? I dont want to choke my power at all by not having a intake mani or exhaust to compensate for it.

Should i upgrade the valvetrain? Valve springs will be upgraded no matter what, but should i do the retainers (is it necessary, giving improvements/holding me back?), i've read the titanium ones wear quicker. Should i get steel or just stick with stock retainers?

Now another question i have is the transmission. The B18b1 tranny just wouldnt do it, would it? i'd be better of going with the gsr tranny correct? and y would i be better off with that? or any other tranny suggestions? I just drew a blank on all the questions i had but i will be posting soon on others. Thanks for all the help!!!
 

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To tell you the truth I got lost in your post. Are you sticking with stock pistons and cams? If so why are you getting a fully built bottom and upper? The GSR has a tighter gearing than the b18b. Just some things to think about.
 

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If you are going turbo in the future, just stick to your b18 tranny, longer gear ratio. If you will go turbo, it won't hurt much to get 3" exhaust now, it would work OK, if you have a agressive NA setup as well...

Things i learn in TI is that, you either go NA or Turbo, but if you have money to fork out, then you can do both...

It is always a good idea to upgrade the spring and train, because you will be putting more stress on it as your money pit gets deeper hehe...

As for sleevin', i read a while back, that people talks about DART sleeving? (was it DART?) and it seems pretty good, with the method they sleeving it and they claim that it won't sink. Check that out...

BTW, B20 does not have such good RS ratio... so is not a good idea to rev it up too high, maybe is better off going Turbo directly... hope these little pieces help.
 

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one reason why you can't go both NA and then go to turbo is the cams. A turbo car likes the total opposite cam that a NA car likes. You'll waste at least the 500 bucks on those stage 3 cams you'll need for a wild NA set up.
 

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3" exhaust is really overkill if your not getting a turbo. Stick with your current N1. If you decide to get turbo, you will be spending alot of $$$ so what is a 3" exhaust at that point :). I'm coming up on doin the B20Z too. Where did you get yours? Stick with the B18B tranny for now. Start by getting the motor in, and work from there
 

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browncow1 on Mar/24/04 said:
one reason why you can't go both NA and then go to turbo is the cams. A turbo car likes the total opposite cam that a NA car likes. You'll waste at least the 500 bucks on those stage 3 cams you'll need for a wild NA set up.
He mean he will go one after another, not both at the same time, but i think he got big bucks y0!
 

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codenamezero on Mar/24/04 said:
He mean he will go one after another, not both at the same time, but i think he got big bucks y0!
if he had big bucks yO, he should spend it on a Porsche and not on a 180 degree turn in engine building approach.

btw you don't have to tell everyone you searched. people can tell if you did or not by the mere info that you provide in your question. I can tell that you've read stuff and you have a good head on your shoulders by the way you ask the question.

everything you said sounds pretty much on the spot but the valvetrain upgrade is driven by the cam's lift and your redline. FI cams are high lift, short overlap. NA cams are usually high lift, long overlap. where you want your powerband depends on your gearing or vice versa (what your gears are depends on your powerband location).

those B20 blocks like the GSR girdle upgrade.

you don't want to see what a panting cylinder wall looks like and what that does to power and oil loss as it flexes with ever increasing rpms and piston sideloads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for all the replies so far guys!

MichaelDelaney on Mar/24/04 said:
everything you said sounds pretty much on the spot but the valvetrain upgrade is driven by the cam's lift and your redline. FI cams are high lift, short overlap. NA cams are usually high lift, long overlap. where you want your powerband depends on your gearing or vice versa (what your gears are depends on your powerband location).
Not quite sure if i understand what your saying here. Let me get this, upgrading the valve retainers is almost a must? So with that, should i go with steel or titanium? Titanium wearing quicker is kinda scaring me away so what are the benefits of titanium over steel?

I will not be using stock cams or pistons, or stock anything at that pretty much, maybe a little here and there. But thats for later deciding. Hence me saying the top and bottem end will be completely built. Sorry for the confusion

I know the b20 is not a really high revving motor. And its not scaring me away for the NA setup. Just would like to do something you dont see too often right now and get the experience.

Me having big bucks? lol Not quite just enjoy working on my car. And its my biggest/only hobby and i'm not scared into pouring money into it. I'm not saying this is gonna be done extremely soon but hopefully done within 2-3 months. Dont worry, as i learn more here, more questions will be posted to make sure i'm on the right track. Thanks again for all the replies and future replies!
 

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no retainers upgrading is not a must. You aren't revving all that high to need to lighten the valvetrain and squeeze out every little bit. The ti retainers are easily galled and get pounded flat over time if there's valve float. I usually don't suggest them to people who aren't seriously racing and ready to rebuild an engine by 30,000 miles again.

The devil is in the details. The specs for an N/A screamer's bottom end is completely different than a decent FI bottom end. Unless you are prepared to compromise on the N/A motor or do the rebuild twice (hence the "you must be rich yo" comment), it's not all that practical to first go N/A and then switch to FI. What do I mean by compromised N/A? You can use a middle of the road CR like 10.5-11:1 and use that bottom end with milder boost levels and good fuel tuning later but an "all out" N/A motor would be in the 11.5:1 CR range for a B20 and a little more of a pain to tune with FI.

You already know what I said about the different cams needed. So whatever you choose for your bottom end will affect your cam choice. Again, you can use a middle of the road N/A cam like ITR cams that would do ok N/A and work FI but it's not spectacular for either one.

I suggest if you eventually want to commit to FI, build for FI. It'll save you money in the long run and be more satisfying. If you try to do this switcharoo midstream you'll end up with a half-hearted motor for both.
 

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My buddy had a 95 civic ex with a b20 block. I'm not sure which one of the two it was but, he had the civic si head with a skunk2 mani, skunk2 cam's stage 1( I think) and rev hard turbo kit(5 psi.), bigger injectors and a 3 in tanabe exhaust. That think ran 12.9 on street tires. It's a killer set up the most fun honda I ever drove. Still very street friendly
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
update..

Engine is arriving tomorrow. getting so excited for it to get here. cant wait.

I dont plan on turboing prob for over a year due to only having one car. If a problem does happen and i dont have the money, then i'm screwed. ya know. so turbo is coming when i have a second car.

I'm in class now, but when i get home i will reply with all the details on what i've decided and what other questions i have. Thanks a lot in helping me understand in more detail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
ok. The update i promised. the engine should be arriving shortly and i will be sure to take pics of it when i get my friends digi cam. As for the setup here is as follows what i have planned so far:
Porting and Polishing of the head (either dh-racing.com or alaniz)
Sleeving the block (golden eagle or darton)
11.5:1 CR Pistons (prob JE??)
Eagle Rods
Crower 404 Cams(or such)
Of course the valve train upgrade havent quite decided yet
Making my own Individual Throttle Body setup.
Current exhaust (N1) but stepping up to 2.5" pipe ran from header back.
Header has yet to be decided. suggestions welcome.

Thats about it for now that i can think of right now. Pics will be coming soon. Later
 

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Hey, I have an interesting idea. I am lookin to do the B20 swap as well. My spring break starts on friday. I live about an hour 1/2 away in MD, and might be able to help you out or somthin, unless your havin a shop do it. Either way, I wanna get first hand experience with it, so let me know if you could use a hand sometime
 

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Making my own Individual Throttle Body setup.
Current exhaust (N1) but stepping up to 2.5" pipe ran from header back.

Header has yet to be decided. suggestions welcome.

Thats about it for now that i can think of right now. Pics will be coming soon. Later
Now, making your own ITB's is gonna require either A) A heck load of money or B) a heckload of skill. They're not vitally important to the build you're going for unless you plan on creating a strictly track car. Also, if you plan on getting an aftermarket intake manifold, then your ITBs are useless.

If you go with a 2.5" collector, the most common mating would be the DC Sports 2.5" JDM header. Just remember to get your carsound high-flow cat to mate up to it and watch for any potential bottlenecks in your setup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
PapaDizzle - i'd love for some help from u, just to give ya some experience and also the extra hand helps. But i'm not doing it for like a few months. Due to the build up and all. But i will def keep in touch with ya and when i'm ready let ya know and what not. Thanks a lot for the offer!

As for the the ITBs. It doesnt take a whole lot of money or too much skill. HM-ITBs Check that out.

The engine is now sitting in my garage. Came today around 10:30. I'll post pics prob this weekend so watch out for them. Thats all for now.
 

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ITB's are a pain to fuel tune and tps tune.

you will need bigger injectors and a standalone or ECU reprogramming depending on the size of the ITB diameter used. Some people have claimed to have gotten away with just a VAFC for tuning them but you don't see these people's dynos (with af ratios) for proof.

The other thing is single plenum IM's can flow as well and make as much power as ITB's. The fastest all motor honda does not use ITB's and has beaten cars with ITB's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well the engine is here! As of right now is sitting in my garage with the intake mani and exhaust mani off. Waiting to be broken down and shipped out for sleeving and PnP. I've decided against the ITBs going with a single plenum intake manifold. Still deciding on some other stuff but will let you all know when i've totally decided. Just to make sure, i've read the B20Z is pretty much a drop in, using the same motor mounts. This is true, correct? And i'll be ordering a set of the Mugen Motor mounts to stiffen it a little bit but not too much! thanks!

Pics are here B20Z Pics
 
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