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Alright guys, I have browsed many posts about this topic and every post seems to be filled with contradictions and differences in fact and fictions. I am NOT about to do the same... but rather would have pure fact, information, and expierence about this misunderstood modification. Suggested coverage should be safety, reliability, causes, effects, relative gains, and brand selection (which does what). Klemgold, Surfer, Morning Z, and M. Delaney; your thoughts and knowledge would be much appreciated here...
 

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you've found lots of contradictions and differences in fact and fictions... b/c... well... there are a lot of contradictions.

argument 1: stock pulley isn't harmonic balancer, b/c most 4-cyls don't have them, so why should we? these are the people that run underdrive/lightweight crank pullies.

argument 2: stock pulley is harmonic balancer. why? it has rubber pressed into it, why else would it have rubber pressed into it? these people are waiting for the argument 1 peoples' motors to spin bearings, meanwhile warming up their "i told you so" speech.

if you follow argument 1, go ahead. you can make a couple horsepower running underdrive... and spin up a little faster with a lightweight piece.

if you follow argument 2... then don't.

i don't see what part of this hasn't been covered immensely in past posts....
 

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Simple fact...there is rubber in the stock pulley. It is not holding it together though, just put there to dampen things(so its not like a motor mount, but more like dynomat).
 

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IF WE KNEW THAT SOMEoNE WOULDNT BRING A POST UP WEEKLY ABOUT THIS. Theres alot of diff views, and unless ive got solid proof one way or the other, ill go ahead and keep stock pulley, altho theres apulley thats supposed to work as a harmonic balancer, i cant recall the manufacturer at the moment tho
 

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what part of the debacle is everybody having trouble understanding?

there IS NO definitive answer.... it's decide what you want, and run with it.

don't think you know enough to decide? then read about it, educate yourself, and try a decision again later....

this site isn't about making other people do the legwork for you.

if reading and understanding yourself if beyond your scope of reasoning... then stick with stock. everybody knows that's always best to do when you don't know any better.

i honestly don't understand the difficulty... why not stick with stock no matter what? is 2-3 horsepower worth even the slightest possibility of engine damage?
 

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my brother is running aem power pulleys in his accord. he had it on for a while and i havent heard of a problem he had with it. from what i understand it does is to draw less power away from the power steering and what nots and gives the power back to the engine. correct me if im wrong. i think if an engine were dependant on that one pulley then something is wrong with it.

you can feel the steering of the car a little more and according to him you will feel a difference but then again it could be that mental horsepower thing 0_o lol
 

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From Common Topics in Performance forum

Michael Delaney on Aug/12/02 said:
either you believe the honda crankshaft pulley is a harmonic balancer or you don't. If you don't, and many do not, then you would go ahead and buy one. But if you do and plan to run the engine hard in the upper rpms, you would avoid them like the plague...it all comes down to what you think is true.

I've heard arguments from very well respected people on both sides of the fence.

When smart people can't definitively agree on a point, then I tend to avoid the part altogether until someone can come up with a convincing proof to nullify the other side. To this day I have yet to hear one from either side proving to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is a risk free addition. So I look to other places for gains and leave well enough alone there.

The question I want to know the answer to; is there going to be any new information in this thread, or are we just going to rehash the same old arguments on here that have already been beaten to death? I tend to believe the latter...
 

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My swap mechanic states that Honda/Acura engine bearing do not like light weight crank pulleys, it burns them up to quickly. Does that mean 10k or 50k just depends.. but he has doing this for 3 to 4 years, so I trust his judgement. I will take reliablity over a couple of extra horses. Cheaper in long run... My JDM ITR Crank pulley is harmonic balanced. ...See heeltoe website for pic...

Just trying to present creditable info per your thread...
 

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Ken_Masters on Feb/11/04 said:
The question I want to know the answer to; is there going to be any new information in this thread, or are we just going to rehash the same old arguments on here that have already been beaten to death?



zzzzzzz...(click on search) . oh! sorry...were you saying something?

Note the date on this quote below from this thread . :

Quote: SurferX on Jan/21/03
Quote: RacerXintegra2k on Jan/21/03
and the debate rages on .. i've not heard 100% good or 100% bad i hear one good one bad everyone is split on crank pulleys lol

Yup, when in doubt, I stick with stock. If something is not absolutely going to be great for my motor I for sure will not spend the money to "try" putting it on.


That was over a year ago!!! Now read what DaBoyNBlu wrote today:

Quote: DaBoyNBlu on Feb/11/04
what part of the debacle is everybody having trouble understanding?

there IS NO definitive answer.... it's decide what you want, and run with it.

don't think you know enough to decide? then read about it, educate yourself, and try a decision again later....

this site isn't about making other people do the legwork for you.

if reading and understanding yourself if beyond your scope of reasoning... then stick with stock.

everybody knows that's always best to do when you don't know any better.

i honestly don't understand the difficulty... why not stick with stock no matter what? is 2-3 horsepower worth even the slightest possibility of engine damage?
LOL...

not only is this old, it's getting repeated so many times, the answers are starting to look alike!!!

Almost Twilight Zonish-like...LOL

same old? same old?

that poor dead horse is so beaten it's already past being glue.

oh yeah...you were asking for the new thing? as was stated here recently :

if you go to UO's website they have the weights listed for their crank pulleys. Most of the "benefit" from the UO's are due to the weight savings on the crank pulley end of the crank which without a harmonic balance counteraction doesn't absorb the shocks or spikes from the power strokes. The advantage is not due to underdriving the pulley.

on the newer crank harmonic underpullies, these anodized items are not that much lighter than stock and some are actually heavier. Their main "advantage" is derived from the under pulleying action and not the weight savings.
That link has the weights.


And then I was all over poor Russ on this latest one last month. I felt so bad about doing that to him. We managed to "smoke da peace pipe chief" and mutually worked out some ways to experimentally answer this question. I suggested that to determine if premature engine problems were attributable to the UO crank pulley (i.e. higher oil pump or bearing failure rates due to the pulley beyond chance) you had to use classical statistics hypothesis testing which is commonly applied in longitudinal observational studies/surveys using Baye's Thereom to test cause and effect relationships. We use this method to determine if a drug really causes harm or if it cures. Survey polls use this method as well (you know, the ones you hear about during elections).


Yeah but these underpulley questions pop up about as regularly & reliably as a pig will fart after each meal. They're getting to be as bad as the "what is the best intake/exhaust for my _______ (LS or GSR or ITR, fill in the blank) ?" hamster on a treadmill threads.

LOL...facts needed...the fact is we need to test the question. Yep facts are needed alright...

anything else is an OPINIoN ASAP and NOT WORTH IT.
 

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I have to apologise to Russ. I really hammered him here. I think he understands the frustration. Russ contributes to this site and doesn't just leech off it. But what I said here to him applies to this post...LOL


MichaelDelaney on Jan/18/04 said:
Russ: we've killed this topic to death, man:

you are new here. welcome to our site. we run things a little differently.

please re-read your guidelines so that you don't re-introduce old topics that have been thoroughly discussed already and addressed. it wastes people's time when we play "groundhog day" and push the reset button to re-invent the wheel after the wheel is already being used.


here they are (if you would have looked at this forum's COMMoN TOPICS or searched first like we had asked you when you signed up):


Unorthodox Pulleys

Pulley question...

Crank Underpulley: CTR N1 Underpulley

overdrive and underdrive pulleys

why have a forum then?: to introduce NEW topics or a more advanced version of the old info. It's not to rehash the same old info when that info is already available and dealt with in detail. This way we all can advance instead of running on a treadwheel like a hamster going nowhere.


just for the record (this was covered BTW in the old threads): each combustion stroke is what slams on the crank and unbalances it. That's what creates the harmonic since the combustion stroke follows the firing order in each cylinder (1-3-4-2 or 1-2-4-3) and the fact that the combustion stroke comes in regular sequence in a 4 stroke motor. The harmonic spikes are what slams on the rods, crank/rod bearings, and parts attached to the crank (like an oil pump) and the shock of these spikes is what the harmonic balancer is dampening or absorbing. This should tell you that rebalancing the crank after adding a lighter nondampener crank pulley doesn't fix the problem, since you still don't have a dampener to absorb the shocks.


until someone tests this in a structured empiric scientific way, you'll never resolve this issue and you'll hear "opinions" that sound convincing but are only just that: OPINIoNS. You need scientific repeated systematic controlled observations to PROVE cause and effect... not opinions. Otherwise you'll come to the conclusion that the rooster causes the sun to rise by crowing ....or that the earth is flat and is at the center of the universe...this is what the misuse of repeated observations have done for mankind in the past.

failed oil pump gear: many causes...is using an undampened lightened crank pulley one of them? we need the science not the BS.



to play it safe? if you want to reduce the rotating assembly weight, do it where you know there isn't any controversy: at the flywheel end...not at the crank pulley end where honda already put in a dampener to do a job.
 

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redallday on Feb/10/04 said:
Alright guys, I have browsed many posts about this topic and every post seems to be filled with contradictions and differences in fact and fictions. I am NOT about to do the same... but rather would have pure fact, information, and expierence about this misunderstood modification. Suggested coverage should be safety, reliability, causes, effects, relative gains, and brand selection (which does what). Klemgold, Surfer, Morning Z, and M. Delaney; your thoughts and knowledge would be much appreciated here...
I think you got the full dose of our thoughts on this topic my Saskatchewanian friend and fellow Canuck.









PS how bout them Riders and why don't you guys have an NHL team (Nashville and hockey?...c'mon) ?
 
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