Team Integra Forums banner
1 - 5 of 5 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok...here's the scoop...

I'm throwing code "7" which is Throttle Angle. I've checked the voltage on my TPS and it is .485v under no throttle, and 4.485 at full throttle.

Is there anything else that could be wrong here ? Is it due to the fact that I have the SAFC set at -40% right now to idle the 450cc injectors without my turbo installed ?

Thanks!
*ScreaminTeg*
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
the SAFC has a connection to your TPS & ECU. check those connections.

the -40% is a red herring. that controls the MAP voltage not the TPS voltage.

how did you manage to use a stock ECU with 450 injectors...the calibrations are way off?

from [url="http://www.hondata.com/techfaq.htmltech" said:
http://www.hondata.com/techfaq.html#tech[/url]]
What are the biggest injectors I can run?

The ECU can be re-calibrated to suit any sized injector (make sure you match injector impedance if you are replacing you injectors). However, injectors take a finite amount of time to open and close, so the bigger injectors tend to be less accurate with their fueling at low durations, such as idle. Much depends on the mechanics of the injector, and how quickly it can open and close. With disk type injectors (such as RC 440cc injectors) you can not tell the difference between stock injectors and injectors which flow twice as much as stock injectors, once the ECU has been reprogrammed for the larger injectors (and there is no difference on the dyno either). With race engines we have run injectors up to 4 times the size of the stock injectors.

How come people say that the biggest injector I can run is 310 cc?

This assumes that you are not re-calibrating the ECU to the new injector size. If you don't, the bigger injector will over-fuel. If this happens then the ECU will compensate to some degree using closed loop operation to reduce the injector duration. The limit of the long term closed loop adjustment is about 40%, which is close to the increase in size from stock to 310cc injectors.


I take it that you didn't exceed the stock MAP sensor's 11 lb. boost limit.

Quote: from http://www.hondata.com/techduty.html
Injector Duty Cycle Definition

Duty cycle is the amount of time that the fuel injectors are switched on. A duty cycle of 0% means that the injector is not on at all, a duty cycle of 100% means the injector is on constantly. Duty cycle at idle is normally only a few percent, rising as revs or load increases.

Honda and duty cycle

Honda usually runs their injectors to 100% duty cycle at redline. They appear to adjust the fuel pressure to achieve this. A good example is the early B16A and B18C engines. Both have 240cc injectors, but the B16A has 38 lbs fuel pressure and the B18C has 45 lbs fuel pressure. The difference in fuel pressure is roughly the difference between engine capacities (remember that fuel delivery from extra fuel pressure is not linear). If the B16A has a touch more fueling it is because it has a higher specific output. I believe that Honda runs their injectors to 100% to get accurate delivery at part load and revs, which in theory will help emissions, economy and drivability. The implication of Honda running their injectors to 100% duty cycle is that there is not much scope to increase the engine output on the stock injectors, since the only other way of increasing fuel delivery is to increase the fuel pressure. With forced induction you fairly soon get into crazy fuel pressures unless you increase the injector size.

We have not seen any problems with engines running rich or lean once the stock injectors get past 80-85%, but it is not recommended to exceed 80% duty cycle with replacement injectors. Otherwise you will run the risk of the injector not being able to open and close quickly enough, which causes the injector to float half open. This will lean the mixture out, which is not going to healthy for an engine at high revs and under full load.

In terms of power change from different sized injectors it appears that there is little difference with the Honda engine changing the injector size if the overall fuel delivery is kept the same by reducing the injector duration. We have dyno tested different sized injectors and did not find any difference in engine output between 240cc and 440cc injectors on a B16A engine (we adjusted the injector duration to give the same lambda readings).
recheck your SAFC connections to the ECU and TPS line. you have to retune everything anyway with the turbo off, so you might as well get rolling on that. I'd put your stock injectors back in or you'll be seriously washing down your walls with fuel and having an over-rich motor (more codes to trigger).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well, ECU still works fine. I made a mistake on here, ther are the RC 440 injectors, which are saturated. So, I do not have a resister box.

I did not exceed 11 psi of boost.

The car doesn't get run very much ( 200 miles in the past 2-3 months approx.) And I have a new turbo here, I'm just about to get it back on, so that's one reason for not putting stock injectors back in.

Thank you for your help and info MD! Always a great source on good information.
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top