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Discussion Starter #1
Well, after a good two days or banging and drilling the crap out of my subframe, the damned bar is on the car. It was the most retarded(please excuse my lack of a better word) installation ever. The instructions, while fairly good, were not even close to being good enough for the amount of work it takes to get this bar on. If I could do it again, I wouldn't get this bar just because installation is such a biatch and I now have holes in my subframe that weren't originally there. I honestly don't like how the bar mounts at all. It took me three years to knock the welded nuts off of the subframe, then I stipped another welded nut that I actually needed to stay on the car. To top it all off, I had to remove the lower control arm from the subframe as well to get this thing on, and I kept putting on a part back together, than having to take it back off because it made another bolt unaccessible later, and this went on for days. Oh well, on to my impressions.

Saturday night I took off my stock swaybar and couldn't finish the job, so I put everything back together and drove home without a rear swaybar. I must say, I didn't notice that big of a difference with or without swaybar. I should say though that I have H&R race springs and it is pretty stiff in the rear, but I thought not having a rear sway would make much more of a difference, so now I was worried that if I didn't notice going from a 14mm bar to a 0mm bar, I wan't going to notice the ST swaybar upgrade. I should also mention that the last shop I took to get my car alligned gave me the most butchered alignment I've ever had in my life. Well, after I got the ST bar on, at 3 in the morning, I drove around, and honestly, I thought I would notice a difference more, but I didn't. I wasn't able to reuse my lower tie bar because the swaybar got in the way. After I got to my home block though I did some left to right tests, and I noticed from my headlights that I had pretty much no sway at all, but I still didn't like the way my car felt, especially my steering input. Now I am almost 127.56% sure that I need a reallignment to fully appreciate this upgrade. I will update this post with my findings over the next few days. BTW, the endlinks are really really nice, and I like how they mount to the shocks, plus the poly bushings are insanely thick and rigid.

EDIT: SCROLL DOWN TO READ MY THOUGHTS AFTER DRIVING AROUND A BIT, MY OPINIoN CHANGES DRASTICALLY, THE BAR KICKS B*TT!
 

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damn that sounds like one hard job..good luck continuing on with the alignment.
 

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Oh...the joy of learning. I'll post some pics of the way I did mine.
 

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I hated installing this bar too on my car. My lower control arms had to be shaved to clear the mounting points for the swaybar, not the brightest thing to do out there. Lots of drilling, banging, and cursing.

You can fit the tiebar on there. You need to offset the bar with spacers. PM and I could show you some pictures.
 

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i didn't think it was that hard to do


then again anything seems simpler with air tools and case of beer lol.

as far as noticing any difference, you should notice it after everything is aligned properly. don't rely on your butt, and be careful so you don't end up in a guard rail. you really shouldn't 'test' new suspension components on the street. at least find an open parking lot to tool around in... but an autoX event or two will make you more satisfied with your purchase and efforts.

i also had an issue with the LCA's... i've got a set of civic non-sway LCA's in my garage awaiting installation.
 

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wow, I had no trouble installing mine. But it could of been the difference in products. I take you only purchased the swaybar, since you already had a lower tie bar. Mine was the whole tie bar and swaybar kit.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Alpha_GSR on Feb/09/04 said:
wow, I had no trouble installing mine. But it could of been the difference in products. I take you only purchased the swaybar, since you already had a lower tie bar. Mine was the whole tie bar and swaybar kit.
yeah, I think yours mounts to the LCA, its a completely different design. I just paid $120 for an excellent alignment which I am going to go into more detail about in my alignment thread (I'll link it later). I still am not satisfied with the way the car handles. It still has some sway, although I think it is from the front now. I have a '99 GS, with a 22mm front bar, I think thats the culprit. Also, I didn't how tights to screw on the nut for the endlinks for the ST bar. The instructions said until the grommets bulge. I'm assuming the grommets are the red poly bushings, correct? I didn't twist the nut too much, I don't know if the endlinks are tight enough. I also had trouble with the LCA and the lower bracket bolt/nut. The LCA wouldn't go in its place because the nut/bolt in the newly drilled hole was occupying its space. So we had to remove the thing and drill, still didn't clear, remove the thing and drill some more further to the left, then it barely cleared. Ridiculous I tell you. I have gaping holes in my subframe, I'm giving it 1-1.5 years before it rips through. My car grips to the road like fly paper when in a turn, but the transition to get into the turn is sloppy, ie. the slalom sucks ass, as does the lane changing steering response in general, its not snappy, but it has ToNS of grip. I wan't the car to slalom better also, I gues I should stiffen up the front and see what happens. Thanks for the replies everyone.
 

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The car is always going to have 'some' sway, if it is going to remain streetable. Take a look at racecars. From a front view around a turn, you can see most of them have some body roll. Despite the fact they weigh close to 800 lbs less than your car, are running spring rates 2-5 times yours, and sway bars 2x as thick, they still sway.

You can't achieve racecar handling on the street. That's why they are racecars!


BTW, you will start to notice the effects more when you have your alignment and start driving agressively. Swaybars are certainly not like tiebars, in that a little bit goes a long way.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
holy crap greg and other dudes, you're totally right about not feeling it until starting to drive more agressively. First of all, I got the most top notch alignment I've ever had, which you can read about in my alignment post: **LINK**

I took he car to a semi windy road, but I couldn't speed, nor did I want too, the road is fairly busy and deer frequent it often. I was driving spiritedly, even jumping to and fro from lane to lane (making sure there was no on-coming traffic of course!) avoiding road abnormalities and pot holes and such, and I couldn't love my car more!! I can't belive what the teg has become, its a complete tranformation from stock, and there are still so many things that can be done. I love my car's handling characteristics for my driving style. I am purely a street guy. Mind you, I spend most of my life driving. I drive as much as or more than I do any other activity in my day. This car is amazing (the teg, not just mine in particular
).

Now, onto the more questionable stuff. Let me begin by saying this: I used to drive a '93 MR2, and that car just had incredible steering response stock, all I had were KYB AGX's and H&R's on my deuce and I swear it felt like the thing could slalom at 120 mph. Then, I've driven my cousins BMW 330 i with the sports package. That thing HANDLES!! I mean, it rotates effortlessly, and I guess I should attribute this to its perfect 50/50 weight distribution, but it honestly feels like it doesn't sway AT ALL. I've also received and Inifiniti G35 sedan, I think it also had the sports package, and that car rotated insanely well also and the steering response was superb, like the actual wheel to turning ratio was great and the car would react almost instantaneously with the slightest turn of the wheel. I try to model my handling around the handling of cars with handling characteristics like the ones I just mentioned, but I'm realizing more and more that I'm going about it all wrong. Can someone clue me in PLEASE!?!?

So, will increasing my front bar or front stiffness give me better steering response with the drawback being more understeer at the limit? I am thinking about getting the ES poly bushings and endlinks for my stock 22mm GS bar, or I am actually thinking about buying the stock GSR 24mm front bar and running that with poly bushings and endlinks. Are any of these options good ones? If anything, I would like my car to lean towards neutral handling to understeer instead of neutral to oversteer, because as I said, I am purely a street guy as of now, I don't have the time right now to even consider into getting into track, that would be so much more research and a different approach all together, and also considering that I am a track virgin, I don't think I am going to change that any time soon. on the street at the limit, I prefer to keep it safe, its too unpredictable out there, so I'd rather go with twitch steering with mild to moderate understeer at the limit than to have some front sway and get better rotation but have oversteer tendencies at the limit. To all those who read this and reply, bravo and a million thanks.
 

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The proper amount to tighten the end links is when the top bushing just stops rotating or becomes very hard to rotate by hand. If you tighten them down too much you'll be replacing them soon.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
After a couple of more days driving my car, I thought I'd update this post. I rotated my tires last night, and for some reason my front tires are almost bald, I'd say theres less than 7k miles to go before they're done. My rear tires on the other hand look as if I just purchased them, and I'm not being sarcastic at all. I have also rotated these tires every 5-7k miles since I've bought them, I take it in to where I purchased the tires and they rotate them for free, but now i'm wondering if they rotated it or not the last time I took it in. Well, my bald tires were contributing a whole lot to the deadness in the steering wheel. I also tightened the rear endlinks quite a bit, and the car just feels great now. I can't wait to drive it, which is what I alsways wanted to feel like but never did before. I think I'm going to get the poly d-bushings and endlink for the 22mm sway for now and run it like that for a while, and if I feel the need I will upgrade to a GSR 24mm sway sometime in the future. I checked my handy work with the install also, and everything is holding up just fine.
 

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Good to hear to enjoy your teg much more! I've got an ITR sway bar in the back and the stock 22mm bar in front with poly bushings and endlinks. The car handles great! I've also installed the ES poly kit, which helps a lot in stiffening up the suspension. If you're unhappy with your setup, try replacing the bushings and see how the car feels afterwards!
 

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opeth13 on Feb/13/04 said:
This thread is referring to the rear swaybar, and the instructions you posted are referring to the front swaybar.
hmm... i thought the rear install directions were in there too. oops!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
filet611 on Feb/13/04 said:
If you're unhappy with your setup, try replacing the bushings and see how the car feels afterwards!
Hmm, I forgot about that one. I'm going to look into doing all of the bushings next.
 

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have fun with that install lol,nah dont want to discourage anyone but it was a tuff install but it can be done..without airtools or a press i mean, if anyone wants to know how we got the old bushing out pm me.
 

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Does anyone have the instructions to install the rear sway bar? I'm at my friends shop as we speak putting the front on and they cant find the rear instructions. Please help!!!!!
 

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Edited by jojo at 02/21/2004 04:58:29 PM
You might be able to find it on their site. If your not done already.
 
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