[G3gocart]

Yesterday my starter just up and stopped working after lunch, and i haven't had any luck in finding the problem. Here are the steps i've taken so far:
-Rebuilt starter solenoid
-took 12v + strait from the battery to the signal plug on starter, and the starter worked.
-jumped the clutch cutout switch, starter still would not engage with the key
-jumped the ignition switch, starter still would not engage
-checked starter signal fuse, it looked good but i replaced it anyway, still no start.

So, at some point i am loosing signal power to the starter, but i have absolutely no idea where else to check. I was under the impression that the only things that could fail power wise were the ignition switch and clutch cutout, obviously this isn't true so someone please direct me in the right direction!! push starting is a royal drag....... Thanks guys,
Edit: I forgot to mention that my alarm has a starter kill function. Actually, i forgot about it myself until a few minutes ago. Now that i've remembered that i'm almost certain it must have something to do with it, but i have absolutely NO IDEA how the alarm is wired, or even where the components are located. I know it has a clear box with a blinking red light under the dash, but thats all i can find. How would i go about bypassing this starter kill function? i beleive the alarm is the DEI viper 100ESP
Ryan

 

[XDEep]

you didn't change the brushes while you had it out?

anyways sounds like you know where the problem is, from the ignition switch to the solenoid, so i would just trace that area using the helms. maybe in the worst case just run a seperate wire. good luck.

 

[G3gocart]

*** Removed by user at Aug 25 2007 9:39PM (Server Time) ***

you didn't change the brushes while you had it out?

anyways sounds like you know where the problem is, from the ignition switch to the solenoid, so i would just trace that area using the helms. maybe in the worst case just run a seperate wire. good luck.

This car is repaired on a college students budget, so no i didn't change out the brushes too. I am seriously thinking about running a seperate wire.If i dont' figure it out soon thats exactly what i'm going to do. I could even do a hidden push button starter typa thing if i wanted to....

 

[pothiawala786]

hope this helps:

 

[pothiawala786]

location of starter cut relay:

 

[pothiawala786]

also, most alarm starter kills are installed before the starter cut relay, so if you're not getting 12v (with clutch pressed in) after the starter cut relay, there is a possibility that its the alarm.

if you want me to show you how to bypass your alarm, PM me for security reasons.

your best bets are to simple check for 12v before and after the starter cut relay, and post up the results.

if you were taking your car to the dealership, this is exactly how they would check it.

 

[G3gocart]

Thank you very very much pothiawala, that is exactly what i needed. Needless to say i can't go out and try it now(its 1230am), but i will definately be looking at that relay tomorrow. I will let you know what happens, if i cannot figure out the problem i will PM you with how to bypass the starter kill on the alarm. Thanks so much again,
Ryan

 

[XDEep]

fyi the rebuild kit is cheap, and makes the starter work a lot better, taking load off the battery even. i'm a poor student as well

oh btw i have a 95, so your 96 is probably due for a rebuild soon

 

[G3gocart]

the black/white wires are getting power to the relay, but no power is being transfered to the black/red wire that leaves the relay, this is leading me to beleive it is the relay. only problem is i can't get find the relay anywhere locally, and if the acura dealer orders it it will not be here until mid next week. The service tech also seemed very skeptical that this was actually my problem, but i really don't see what else it could be. on a positive note, i finally found the sensitivity adjustment as well as the brain to my alarm, but holy cow man that thing is wired into EVERYTHING under there, it literally is a maze of wires. I will let you all know what happens, thank you very much for the replies.
Ryan

 

[pothiawala786]

That relay engages when the clutch pedal is depressed, theres nothing else to it according to the wiring diagram.

Also, if you're getting 12v to the relay, that would rule out the alarm because MOST installers install it before the relay, but there are exceptions.

When the clutch pedal is depressed, the clutch switch sends a signal to ground. This ground closes the relay which allows the current to go from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid.

to tell you the truth man, it sounds to me like a clutch switch issue. you might need to adjust the switch, or completely bypass it.

Try taking a paperclip/jumper wires and go from the Black/white wire to the Black/red wire. this would bypass the relay and the clutch switch.

Also, if that circuit runs on less than 30amps, you can just go to radioshack or partsexpress.com and order yourself a relay. radioshack has them for $6.49, and partsexpress has them for $1.39 (but you have to pay shipping).

I'm not sure if it runs on less than 30 amps, but that could be your last resort.

well atleast you know your problem now, its the starter cut relay or the clutch switch. you can rule out the alarm because you're not getting 12v directly after the relay.

screw around with the clutch switch, or bypass the relay with a paperclip/jumper wires.

 

[pothiawala786]

Just buy a relay like this one. its a single pole single throw.

you connect the clutch switch wires to 86 and 85.
you connect the relay wires to 87 and 30.

if you look at the relay in teh wiring diagram, these are the contact points:

8687

8530


i would definately use this as a last resort though. it would definately be alot cheaper than getting a relay from the Acura dealer as well.

 

[G3gocart]

I am starting to strongly suspect my clutch switch as well, even though i have tried to bypass it with no positive results. I took apart the starter cut relay and used my voltmeter to check for power within the relay, and i came accross something interesting that i don't quite understand. Using aligator clips, i took the negative end of the voltmeter to the ground(steering column), and attached the positive end to the contact point that goes to the coil in the relay. When i had this attached and i turned the key, the starter engaged. Now i am confused as to whether or not the voltmeter simply completed the ground(which would mean bad clutch switch or a wiring issue therin), or if the voltmeter's battery simply provided enough current to pull in the selenoid of the relay to make the contact needed to start the car, opinions??

 

[pothiawala786]

try this, take a jumper wire from the coil side(clutch side) of the relay (after the relay - Blu-Blk wire) and ground it somewhere.

see if it engages.

if it does, its your clutch switch.

 

[G3gocart]

try this, take a jumper wire from the coil side(clutch side) of the relay (after the relay - Blu-Blk wire) and ground it somewhere.

see if it engages.

if it does, its your clutch switch.

Just did that and the car did start, however for some reason jumping the clutch switch doesn't yield the same result??? At this point i think i'm going to cut the blue wire and simply extend it and ground it out on the chassis, does anyone see this as being a bad idea??
Ryan
edit: is there any chance the starter kill is wired into the clutch switch or ground? that would be the only thing that would make any sense to me....

 

[pothiawala786]

you can do that, but make sure no one turns your key when its in gear, cuz it'll start and jump forward.

also, you cruise control wont work because it'll think your stepping on the clutch.

other than that, thats about it.

if you want to use your cruise control, after starting the car, simply take the blue wire off ground and then activate cruise.

you only need to ground that wire as well during cranking, so you can just hold it near ground, and once your car is started, you can let that wire dangle around.

 

[pothiawala786]

you know what, its possible that the starter cut is on the clutch end of the relay.

did you have someone install the alarm? or did it come when you bought the car?

 

[G3gocart]

it came with the car when i bought it, which is why i'm so clueless when it comes to anything dealing with that alarm. It is important that cruise control work, so i wonder if i were to cut the wires off of the clutch switch connector, extend one side to a new ground and the the the other to the blue wire off of the relay if that woudl solve all my problems. It would take a little more effort in wiring but it would at least seem like it was done correctly then. I can't thank you enough for your help pothiawala, you have saved me from taking my car to the $tealer.
Ryan

 

[pothiawala786]

on the clutch interlock switch, there are two wires, the blue/black wire and the black wire. check to see if you're getting 12v at te blue/black wire at the actual switch when your car is at ACC(clock on).

it might help figure out what exactly is the problem, who knows, it might just be the clutch switch and not an alarm issue at all.

also the idea you have would work as well, but if you have an alarm wired in there, there goes your alarm. BUT, it will work just like stock. then just wire up a switch or relay as an alarm.

 

[pothiawala786]

oh yea, if you're driving on the highway, with cruise control on, and if you press the clutch, does it disengage the cruise control?

 

[G3gocart]

on the clutch interlock switch, there are two wires, the blue/black wire and the black wire. check to see if you're getting 12v at te blue/black wire at the actual switch when your car is at ACC(clock on).

it might help figure out what exactly is the problem, who knows, it might just be the clutch switch and not an alarm issue at all.

also the idea you have would work as well, but if you have an alarm wired in there, there goes your alarm. BUT, it will work just like stock. then just wire up a switch or relay as an alarm.

By there goes your alarm do you mean that my alarm will not work at all or just the starter kill will not work? if it is the latter then i really don't mind, and it would be worth the loss to get my car running and put back together. I found the actual ground for the alarm system, and i know it needs to be connected for the alarm to work, but it seemed to work fine with the relay itself unplugged. How exactly is the cruise control integrated into this circuit? Is it simply as long as that relay is "engaged" the cruise will not work? If so, running a new wire will work, but if the ground is before the ignition switch for the cruise it would not work unless i rewired that as well correct?? Thanks again for your help,
Ryan