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I have a 2000 gsr and am looking to buy a full exhaust setup, e/c/h. I hear smsp makes great a great header for our cars and I was wondering how their 2.5" exhaust is? Also, how do I get in contact with them and how are their prices? Since I am most likely going to get the 2.5" setup for everything will it hurt my performance if I decide to not build my engine up in the future as I have decided to do now? All I have right now is the aem cai, can I expect to see respectable gains with this system with just my intake until I build up my engine some more? I realize that I would get better performance with a smaller diameter system at this point in time but the 2.5" should still help me out a lot right?
 

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Dave sells it as a kit. You have to get it welded together by a local muffler shop. It's made of aluminized steel. There are stainless steel sections as an option. You have your choice of resonator lengths. I'm not sure if the tips are available is different sizes but from what I recall they are not.

It's an excellent 2.5 in. straight through system. The resonator is a straight through design with no bootleneck inside like the kakimoto dual resonators on it's 2.75 in. OD exhaust. The noise level is suppressed due to the resonator and huge can used but it maintains flow speed with a proper size needed for heavy hitter N/A engines.

the last price I recall was in the $600 ballpark but Dave was doing a groupbuy on it as well for less.

you can pm him here since he is also a member here or email him at [email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply. Also, do you of any other quality 2.5" exhausts? How much do is the smsp 4-2-1 header with the 2.5" collector?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
aight thanx no prob
 

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Man, that looks stock, just like I like it. Why are you suggesting the 2.5 instead of the 2.25? He doesn't sound like he is going huge with the N/A stuff. If he just does the basic boltons i/h/c/e, then would 2.25 be sufficient? I've read the articles, don't get me wrong, and I believe 2.25 went up to 180 whp, that seems to be enough for the basic bolt ons. I was just wondering if 2.5 would cause too many disturbances.

2 and 3/8 would sound like a better bet to me. Since he still doesn't seem to know if he's going to pour lots and lots of money into it. And even if he does, he'll still be fine with the 2 and 3/8 since that takes him all the way up to 207 HP. Do you agree MD or am I totally off on this?
 

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The way I see it SMSP's full header-cat-exhaust system is a great starting point for any tuned N/A application. The exhaust may be big to start but it leaves room for the engine to grow. You can be assured that the header and exhaust definitely will not be the limiting factors in the setup. SMSP's system will perform good on a stock engine as well as be ready for more wild mods in the future.
 

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on the Great Header Test where they dyno'd a bunch of headers on an ITR with just a Comptech Icebox and an SMSP 2.5 in. exhaust with a Carsound 2.5 in. cat and no other mods, the car made in the vicinity of 180-188 whp between the worst and best headers, on a Mustang dyno (the Mustangs tend to dyno just a little higher than the Dynojets by about 3-5 whp..for example the baseline for that ITR with a stock exhaust system and Icebox was 175 whp).

There were no complaints of midrange loss in any header tested witha full 2.5 in. cat/exhaust.

As SurferX stated, it gives you room to grow and you know you aren't being held back by a possible exhaust system choke hold.

Now there is nothing "wrong" with using a 2 3/8 in. system in a GSR...that's usually the common size you see on the aftermarket exhausts...the herd sort of speak...2 1/4 in. would be too small in my opinion. The ITR exhaust is 2 1/4 in. In a B18C you should go at least 2 3/8 and better if you get 2 1/2 in.
 

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ok MD i am kinda confused now. i just read the exaust articles in the begining of the week and i thought that 2 1/4" exausts where good for up to 200 hp. and was good for a bolt on engine. is the 2 1/4 dia exaust going to be choking my engine at all if all i end up with are I/H/C/E? I thought that i was doing good with getting a comptech exaust and going with their header also.
 

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I think you are misunderstanding here. When you say 200 hp, you are talking about hp at the crank. MD is talking to the wheels. If you only do I/H/C/E, you should be fine with a 2 1/4" system. Even if you get ITR cams and increase compression slightly, you could be fine. Provided you don't plan on exceeding 180 WHP.


Taken from MD's article [url="http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=48" said:
Advanced Exhaust Tech I[/url]] 2-1/4" up to 210HP @ the flywheel (about 180-185 whp)

2-3/8" (60mm) up to 235HP @ the flywheel (about 200-207 whp)

2-1/2" up to 265HP @ the flywheel (about 225-235 whp)

2-3/4" up to 325HP @ the flywheel (about 275-285 whp)

3" big for big HP (Forced Induction: > 275 whp)
 

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You'd still be shooting yourself in the foot with a 2.25" exhaust hooked up to a nice big 2.5" header. That exhaust size to HP chart is only meant as a guide and not an end-all rule for everything. You still have to consider header and cat sizing. If you do I/H/C/E and stick with the stock-sized 2.0" header on a non-ITR then it would be correct to say that 2.25" is adequate. Using a 2.5" header though, I'd have to say it isn't.
 

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yes there are some general rules for an exhaust system:

1. you size the entire system (h/c/e) for your needs.
the chart is based on CRANK hp as I stated multiple times in the article. If you want to know the whp conversion multiply the crank hp by 0.85 for the appropriate diameter. It is a minimum diameter guide for the ENTIRE exhaust system. I put it up because so many people buy exhausts without even considering sizing or it's relation to the other 2 parts of the exhaust system and usually get one that is too small for their expectations ...leading to guaranteed future disappointment at the dyno and the track. They do the WWF choke hold head lock on the exhaust system and obsess about choosing one that sounds the best...sort of like focusing on the penny on the road while you cross the street, as a car is rapidly coming towards you...

2. you want the size to be the same from the header to the exhaust or you can gradually step the system diameter up by 1/8 in. in 2 ft length sections as you move to the back of the car. Do not abruptly jump from a 2.25 cat to a 2.5 in. exhaust.

3. you never want to have a smaller diameter as you proceed to the back of the car since this will only choke your system and kill flow velocity. so choosing a header with a 2.5 in. collector and then getting a 2.5 in. cat and then using a 2.25 in. exhaust is effectively shooting yourself in the foot...it's backpressure heaven.

4. you never want to have a big diameter in the middle of the exhaust system and then bookend it with smaller diameters: this too will slow down flow velocity. So gutting a cat does just this and is not a good idea. The car will feel great at low rpms and just die or poop out at the mid to upper rpms where you need it the most for faster times. Want to gut the stock cat?: another foot shooter.

5. a quality hi flow, properly sized cat makes only 2 whp less than a testpipe of the same size and is ideal for a daily driver. testpipes are better for race only applications.
 

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ok guys. i am now understanding better. thanks a lot. i am not going for any big HP. at least not in the next 5 years while i am at school. and i might never do it. so i am going to look for a good high flow cat that is 2 1/4" and a header that is 2 1/4" or 2" collector. thanks for helping out. i kinda got this thread off topic. sorry about that
 

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i can tell you first hand that smsp products are outstanding.. you won't regret any of his products..
you will see some very good gains with sms headers and his full exhaust system
 

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The kit price that was given was for stainless steel tubing and an aluminized steel resonator and muffler. The gutts of those pieces are 409 stainless and carry a lifetime warranty through Magnaflow. A + due to the stainless steel mesh packing versus fiberglass, although the stainless steel mesh is heavier. The muffler and 14" resonator is available in a polished 304 stainless body but the 18" (what I mainly use on race only applications) and the 22" resonator (what I mainly use for the street systems ) are only available in aluminized steel.

As for whp concerns. I have one of the 2-1/2" systems on an ITR with only a JDM ITR header, 94006 cat and AEM CAI that is putting 182 to the wheels.

Oh my new email is [email protected]
 

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Dave,

will you be updating the exhaust sizing vs hp chart or do you find that they are adequate as a guide for people to select the exhaust system tubing diameters for their power goals?

Many people have expressed their concern that 2.5 in. may be too much for an all motor LS with intake, header, and cat or a similar setup in an ITR or GSR. We know the mostly stock ITR benefits from 2.5 in. But should people be concerned about oversizing, if they own an LS or GSR?

I guess there are still remnants of the "I need backpressure to maintain midrange power." old thinking influencing people still despite my best efforts to relay the info stating otherwise.
 

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oh and is there a way to express the cat sizes in terms of OD? There has been a lot of confusion when people jump from OD as the reference point of view by convention to ID for the cats. If you choose a 2.25 in. ID cat for a 2.25 in. OD exhaust, the exhaust will choke down the flow ever so slightly...

for the newer cat models you are selling, can you please also provide their installed lengths relative to the stock cat? another common question we get about your cats...I have the 94000 series old version cat lengths in the articles but not the new ones with the O2 bung at the stock location.


thanks
 

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Well my 4-2-1 headers for the LS used for the ITA class in SCCA have 2-1/4" collectors so I'd stick with a 2-1/4" system for a mildly modded B18A/B. If you get crazy with it, maybe go with a 60mm system. If you take it a step higher than that you'll probably be going LS/VTEC so you should be looking at a 2-1/2" system.

As for tubing, I'll always make reference to it by OD. The cats are in ID because they all come as universals for the muffler shops. The cats are set up for the shops to just slide the tubing into each end and weld. But yes, for a 2-1/4" cat you'll have a 2-1/4" ID bolting up to a 2-1/4" OD/2-1/8" ID system. You could knife edge the leading edge of the B pipe flange tubingto get rid of that small step but since most guys don't do anything with the mismatch of the 2-1/2" cats on stock ITR systems I doubt they do it in the above case. The 2-1/4" cats work nicely with the 60 mm systems as long as the system in question doesn't have a bottle neck at the flange.

The stock length cats are right around 17-3/4". The JDM headers are about 3/4" longer than the stock header so those cats are shorter. The pre 2000 GSRs use a cat length of 12" - 12-1/4" when used with a JDM header.
 

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Michael Delaney on Aug/18/02 said:
Many people have expressed their concern that 2.5 in. may be too much for an all motor LS with intake, header, and cat or a similar setup in an ITR or GSR. We know the mostly stock ITR benefits from 2.5 in. But should people be concerned about oversizing, if they own an LS or GSR?
I would like to know more about this for my GSR. my future plans consist of type r cams, VAFC, cam gears, FPR.I would imagine that i will be putting out around 180 whp, so i should benefit from this 2.5 exhaust right?
 
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