Went to the local shop today and was talking to the tech there about the Skunk2 IM, Hes trying to sell me the new AEM EMS, and says the IM cant work with out it(which i know is sh*t) so i explained to him i knew it would work, then he explained yes it will work, but you'll get a weriod check engine light, and it will delay your VTEC engagement by 200-400 RPM, is there truth behing this or is he jsut try to take me for a ride??? Is it time to find a new shop?
Skunk 2 intake manifold delaying vtec
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Maybe time to find a new shop...i know i installed my new IM like 3 weeks ago and the only check engine light i got was when i unplugged the iac like an idiot...and my vtec engages where it usually does it varies sometimes but it would do that with the regular IM due to all the factors that have to be right for it to engage so maybe he is just trying to sell the EMS and just stretching some facts to make the sale
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yup.. the guy u talked to is an idiot.
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Screw him and his wacko stories. Just get the Skunk 2 IM b/c i'm sure he just wants to make a profit off stupid people and i know you're not one of them.
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392 Posts
i think that it can happened but most likely wont
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I second that.
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Ask the guy what are the 5 things that affect VTEC engagement:
rpm, TPS, oil pressure, engine temp, vehicle speed
then ask him how the IM affects these...they don't.
what the IM will do is shift your powerband up higher and that's where you gain will be at the expense of midrange.
To compensate, you must tune the cam gears or ECU tune to get back some midrange. In most cases the VTEC is moved higher in tuning with this IM because of the fact that the air flow speed for the right air fuel ratio in the powerband occurs later.
That's what he is "trying" to say but really doesn't know how to say it. He's also trying to sell you the EMS. To be honest, I'm not sure if he knows the facts leading to the bottomline answer or whether he is just parroting the bottomline that someone else has told him back to you.
Of course, with any new part, you will need to tune...that goes without saying. Tuning with an EMS is ideal. Do you need one right now, right away or the Im won't work? no. You may have a hole in the midrange to fix but you can fix that with a fuel controller, FPR, ignition advance, and cam gears.
you knew the single stage IM would shift your powerband up right? Are you going to stick to a 62mm TB or a 64mm TB?
rpm, TPS, oil pressure, engine temp, vehicle speed
then ask him how the IM affects these...they don't.
what the IM will do is shift your powerband up higher and that's where you gain will be at the expense of midrange.
To compensate, you must tune the cam gears or ECU tune to get back some midrange. In most cases the VTEC is moved higher in tuning with this IM because of the fact that the air flow speed for the right air fuel ratio in the powerband occurs later.
That's what he is "trying" to say but really doesn't know how to say it. He's also trying to sell you the EMS. To be honest, I'm not sure if he knows the facts leading to the bottomline answer or whether he is just parroting the bottomline that someone else has told him back to you.
Of course, with any new part, you will need to tune...that goes without saying. Tuning with an EMS is ideal. Do you need one right now, right away or the Im won't work? no. You may have a hole in the midrange to fix but you can fix that with a fuel controller, FPR, ignition advance, and cam gears.
you knew the single stage IM would shift your powerband up right? Are you going to stick to a 62mm TB or a 64mm TB?
I was gonna stick with the stock TB, would the bigger throttle body hurt the mid torque even more, or help?
Thanks, helps me from getting ripped off, some shops
think since your a kid you dont know anything, and they can turn your pocket inside out
Thanks, helps me from getting ripped off, some shops
think since your a kid you dont know anything, and they can turn your pocket inside out
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31,217 Posts
if you want to stay in the midrange powerband (street) I suggest having the TB bored from the stock 60 mm to 62 mm like the ITR. If you want a higher powerband location then portmatching it to the 64 mm plenum port of the Skunk2 IM would be a good idea. Do NOT exceed 64mm and get one of those 66-68mm aftermarket TB's, with the current set up you have. If you plan to go more radical in the future with a powerband from 7k-9.5k rpm then the larger bore with the IM portmatched would be your option but it sounds like you aren't going down that road..
As I said, I don't know if this guy was just giving you the cliff notes version or whether he is parroting what he heard but really did not understand what he was saying.
I think you just have to show him you know more than what your age suggests.
If you analyse what he says, WITHOUT THE HARD SALES PUSHINESS TO MAKE YOU BUY THIS EMS NOW [WHICH IS BOGUS], it is, in the long run, true. The fact is, with this IM, you WILL lose midrange especially with stock GSR cams. The fact that you are commiting to this IM means you ARE shifting your powerband to a higher rpm range. The IM will give you more power up top when you bolt it on now with no EMS.
If you get bigger cams in the future they will regain the midrange and your VTEC will be moved to a higher rpm than the current 4400 rpm with this package with tuning. That's a given fact. No debate.
The difference between an AEM EMS or Hondata Stage 4 versus a Apex VAFC or Field Boxer SFC is more resolution and more flexibility in controlling the fuel map and the ability to control the ignition map as well. The Field only has 8 rpm points you can tune. The VAFC has 16 rpm points. The VAFC can only go up to 9000 rpm. The EMS and Hondata have hundreds of rpm points you adjust...not 8-16 points only...you have finer control of the fuel map and you also have the ability to move the VTEC with them.
The question is: can you run the car now without an EMS? sure, yes you can run with it now as is...it'll give you nice gains above 6000 rpm, as I said. You can probably tune a bit of midrange back with your adjstable cam gears set to a broader LSA. Is it optimal? or the finished package for a broad high powerband? no. Will a computer tuner like an EMS or an ECU reprogram later on down the road help? if you are going to get extreme and do higher CR and headwork with bigger cams, sure.
As I said, I don't know if this guy was just giving you the cliff notes version or whether he is parroting what he heard but really did not understand what he was saying.
I think you just have to show him you know more than what your age suggests.
If you analyse what he says, WITHOUT THE HARD SALES PUSHINESS TO MAKE YOU BUY THIS EMS NOW [WHICH IS BOGUS], it is, in the long run, true. The fact is, with this IM, you WILL lose midrange especially with stock GSR cams. The fact that you are commiting to this IM means you ARE shifting your powerband to a higher rpm range. The IM will give you more power up top when you bolt it on now with no EMS.
If you get bigger cams in the future they will regain the midrange and your VTEC will be moved to a higher rpm than the current 4400 rpm with this package with tuning. That's a given fact. No debate.
The difference between an AEM EMS or Hondata Stage 4 versus a Apex VAFC or Field Boxer SFC is more resolution and more flexibility in controlling the fuel map and the ability to control the ignition map as well. The Field only has 8 rpm points you can tune. The VAFC has 16 rpm points. The VAFC can only go up to 9000 rpm. The EMS and Hondata have hundreds of rpm points you adjust...not 8-16 points only...you have finer control of the fuel map and you also have the ability to move the VTEC with them.
The question is: can you run the car now without an EMS? sure, yes you can run with it now as is...it'll give you nice gains above 6000 rpm, as I said. You can probably tune a bit of midrange back with your adjstable cam gears set to a broader LSA. Is it optimal? or the finished package for a broad high powerband? no. Will a computer tuner like an EMS or an ECU reprogram later on down the road help? if you are going to get extreme and do higher CR and headwork with bigger cams, sure.
Would going with a 62mm t/b affect flow any since the manifold is 64mm? What would some of the side effects of using a smaller t/b be? Whistling through the t/b etc...etc... Thank you
and btw, with the t/b gaskets that are not solid like in the old days, is it better to use an aftermarket gasket or a different one?
and btw, with the t/b gaskets that are not solid like in the old days, is it better to use an aftermarket gasket or a different one?
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31,217 Posts
it's ok to go from a 62mm tb-> 64mm im port. in fact that is the stock itr setup!!! it is NOT ok to go from a 64mm tb -> 62mm im port. that would absolutely kill flow.
secondly a larger im plenum likes the flow velocity a smaller tb provides.
secondly a larger im plenum likes the flow velocity a smaller tb provides.
Well.... we have talked before on another web board and I told you my setup, JDM ITR t/b with Skunk2 manifold and it runs fine but I now have this irratating whistling coming from the t/b. It idles alittle high and I can't adjust it any lower along with upon turn off it no longer has the K&N sucking noise, and it seems that this is unique to my car (nobody else seems to have this problem). What should be my point of attack on solving this? Thank you.
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259 Posts
The gsr's im doesn't whistle that loud..(the intake whistle you're talking about) If you listen to an si or an itr...you'll notice their im whistle alot louder...and since you got a skunk im which is basically the same as an itr manifold made to fit a gsr...you're noticing the louder whistle..thats all..
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31,217 Posts
the back evap hoses should be checked for leaks with the skunk2 im.
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I have a 99 Ls am I going to notice a big difference with the Skunk2 Intake Manifold with stock throttle body still? The thing that sucks is I had the skunk2 in my trunk and I left it over night out front of the shop to get installed the next day and somone bashed in my window and stole it so ever since then I have wanted to get my hands on one. I found one with direct port nitrous tapped in the rails of the manifold and I think that is going to be the one that I go with. Hopefully I am ok runnnin a 70 shot on stock internals and only I/H/E!
Actually, I found part of my problem tonight..... I have a JDM ITR t/b and the USDM ITR gasket does not seal the entire t/b, leaves about 1/2 gap exposed to the outside world. Replacing it with a GSR gasket helped but I still have a leak some where. I have a little vacuum hose on the fitting and hose clamped the EVAP hose over it. That should work til I find a better solution. Also since I replaced the t/b gasket, it has dropped the rpm at ldle about 300.
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31,217 Posts
since my port is 65mm and the ITR TB gasket is 64mm and we went through 2 gaskets trying to get it to fit and failed, we ended up using liquid gasket and ditched trying to fit on a factiry gasket in the end...not ideal but it works for now...Kevin's idea, not mine....
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