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Discussion Starter #1
ok today i talked to the people at apex in tucson and they quoted me at $2000 for the v-tec head intalled and 185 horses. what is a reasonable price and is their horsepower correct.
 

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185 horses...at the wheel or at the crank? for 185 whp: it depends on the cams and CR you are using with the head and will likely need a bump in the CR using ITR pistons and cams minimum . with the stock LS pistons? 185 crank hp (157 whp) with i/h/c/e is doable.

which vtec head? b16a, b18c1, or b18c5? price will depend on that. btw does that price you quote include capping the VTEC solenoid oil line or just for the head only? does it include the ecu and vtec wiring harness, IM, TB, sensors?
 

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$2000? that seems cheap I think? what are the exact parts (what mike d was asking) are you using. are you using mostly stock ls parts, or are you upgrading to ITR parts? what head are you using etc?

if this can be achieved for around $2000 and be effective and reliable I would be intrested in it as well.

Mike D: How reliable is the setup he will be using (once he names the parts). Does the LS/vtec cause any unnormal wear and tear, etc. and what are the best parts to use to reduce that risk. I know obviously if you swapped out the LS pistons for ITR there will be less wear, I was kind of wondering what's a good setup for a reasonable price. I have a 95 LS with only 36K on it. I plan on keeping her for a long time and would want this to be reliable all the way to 100K without any undue stress/maintence, etc.
 

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itr pistons are to add compression. they don't reduce wear. I don't know what you mean by that. The rod ratio is still the same since he still has the LS crankshaft and LS rods (same length) and so his wear from the more extreme crank angle is the same.

LS/VTEC's are notorious for vacuum, oil, and coolant leaks if the assembly and machine shop prepping of the head and block aren't done correctly. So it re-emphasises the importance of selecting an experienced engine builder/machine shop that has put one together successfully before (proven track record of building them and they last for more than 1.5-2 years). Again not revving as high and maintaining the engine lubrication will also prevent problems. I would definitely use ARP head studs instead of Honda head bolts here. You can get a b16a head for about half of what he is being charged but it need to be ported (3 angle valve job and bowl blend minimum).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
im not sure what head they were talking about but internals would stay stock till i had the money to do a complete engine build. and the 185 is at the fly. the price that he gave me was also the complete install i believe with the ecu, wireing harness, ect. the shop doing the proceedure would be apex motorsports in tucon, anyone had experience with them in the past.
 

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i have a 94 ls with 134,000 miles on it, its a daily driven car obviously. I just baught a first gen b16a1 motor off a guy i met on ebay. Its a motor shipped from japan, its a 25,000 - 35,000 mile motor. I looked it over pretty good before i actually baught it. It came with everything except most of the head parts. No intake manifold, no Fuel rail, no throttle body. but it does have the stock internals on the head. I also still have the block. What i was wondering was.. how much do you guys think ill have to spend in order to have LS-VTEC done correctly. I relise i have to rebuild the bottom end as well. So i have the 1st gen b16a1 head and minus the parts i need to make the head complete. How much from a shop do you think ?
 

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$2K is pretty inexpensive if it includes the head, ECU, and install work. Again if all he is doing is slapping the head on without machine work (slotting the dowel pins, resurfacing the head deck and block deck to ensure a flat mating surface, welding shut the oil passage to the VTEC solenoid on the head, using ARP head studs) then you may want to ask what their policy is should an oil leak or coolant leak occur in the first year after the build. I would definitely invest in ARP head studs, a GSR oil pump, new water pump, a new headgasket, and new timing belt.

Most basic LSVTEC installs with machine work run in the $3000-3500 range. The price will vary depending on the VTEC head you use. Obviously a b16a head will be the cheapest of the 3. The prices can run as high as $8K if you go all out for piston/cam/IM upgrade.
 

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http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/b20vtec/b20vtec.html

BTW if you already need to replace the pistons and rod bearings in your block, you may want to look at going to a junkyard and locating a B20 block. You can have 84.25mm-84.5mm bore, high compression pistons put in, have the B20 block honed to 84.25-84.5 mm (stock 84mm), prepped for a VTEC head: You would have a 2L all motor monster with 200 whp and 150 lb ft torque quite easily when properly tuned (yes I have seen 170 whp B20VTECs...not tuned).

Cost out the prices for boring/honing/resurfacing the deck on your LS block, slotting the dowel pin holes so that the pins align with the VTEC head, dropping in new pistons, ( and if you want new rod bearings, and rod bolts).

Then cost out a B20 block, the cost of honing the block only, resurfacing the block deck, slotting the dowel pin holes to accept the VTEC head, dropping in pistons.

just something to consider. You'd be surprised about how close the prices are and what you get in return powerwise for each.
 

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If you know how to drop a motor in, you might as well save up like another $1000 and just get a gsr motor instead which will be more reliable. Just my 0.02

Ray
 

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Discussion Starter #10
thanx for everything i will have to put some thought into what i want to do, one last question, if i did just get the gsr motor will it accept spoon cams or are spoon cams itr only.
 

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I just bought a 96 ls integra and its at the shop as we speek. The car is stock with 143,000 and i'm putting on a gsr head, gsr ecu, arp head bolts, water pump, timming belt , all new drive belts, and of coarse a new head gasket. I've been reading alot of post about this swap and i hope i'm doing the right thing. In addition to the swap i'm also putting d.c 4-1 cc headders, greddy cat-back and aem cold air intake. The total cost for everything out the door $2800.00 cash !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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just a off-topic question: after seeing all these posts of people gettin ls/vtec, where do these people with the gsr heads and other parts get it from? And where do civics and other non-vtec cars get GSR engines from? Is it used or do they make extras brand new? So many people do it that i wouldnt think there would be that much of an abundant amount of GSR engines that are legit. Would this be a good reason why alot of GSR's are getting stolen these days? demand over supply?
 

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not all ls vtec's are using stolen parts but you raise a good point: where are these extra VTEC heads coming from?

from totaled GSR's, Si's, and ITR's,

from JDM/foreign DM (European, other Asian, South American) wreckers

from Honda (buy a new head straight from the factory),

and last but not least,...from the assholes who steal them and resell them for a profit: may all the karma that they deserve greet them back with equal force that they bestow on the people they steal from...

did I miss anyone?

you notice that there are plenty of LS blocks available: supply more than demand...this is why LS/VTEC's are so hyped by the retailers: there's a buck to be had.
 
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