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Discussion Starter #1
I've been thinking about my next suspension set up would be. This set up would be a moderately agressive daily driver and some weekend autoxer. Im considering Koni Reds with Ground control adjustable springs set at 1.5-1.75in drop for daily driving. From the Spring/coilover chart by SurferX the Ground Controls have a 380lbs/in spring rates, I was wondering if the Reds can handle this spring rates? The reason I wanted adustable springs is because I live in Oregon and sometimes it snows pretty good and I like the convenience of raising it up a bit or dropping it down for shows.
If you have this similar set ups, please feel free to coment about your experience
 

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theres a post somewhere where greg and md comment on the stiffness of the koni reds. from my understanding they are stiffer than most shocks such as illuminas and agx's. they are 2 way adjustable. greg and micheal delaney are the ones you want to talk to on this one
 

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I'd like to see the post that says they are stiffer than illuminas. I was under the impression that the illuminas were stiffer.

Also, with ground controls, you can get whatever springrates you choose! Don't cut yourself short with a setup that is too front-biased.
 

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The problem with shocks is that we don't have much more to go on than what people say. There are no hard facts anywhere...no shock dyno's comparing all the major brands (Koni, KYB, Bilstien, Tokico).

Of course the people at Koni will probably tell you the Reds will not be able to handle the GC's, but they are trying to sell you the Yellows...and they don't want you to coming running back when you blow the Reds for a warranty saying 'but you told me they would work!'.

So keeping that in mind....I know Greg has run H&R (Neuspeed perhaps, I can't remember) Race springs for about 2 years with Koni Reds. You can see in the Specs article that the race springs have some pretty serious rates.

You had a guy on here the other day who works at a Koni Revalving centre (supposedly) and was saying that you couldn't even run Race springs on Koni Yellows, you'd need to get them revalved (big surprise, the revalving place telling you that you need to send them your money and shocks to get them revalved).

So I think when it comes to shocks, you just have to find people you respect and trust, who have nothing to gain one way or another, and listen to their experiences.
 

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Also consider that the rear GC's are 250 lbs. So you don't need the most expensive shock to work with those rates. I don't see why the reds wouldn't be "strong" enough to control those rates.
 

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Everything I have read and looked into points that the Reds are valved to handle stiffer rates and larger drops than the illuminas. The illuminas are really close to the AGX in terms of valving.
 

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there is a post out there that has rates for the illuminas for each setting and the rates of the konis red set on low and hi. theres alot of threads to sort through tho
 

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Here's two threads where member/mod Greg states that the reds are valved for slightly higher spring rates than illuminas.

From this thread...
Greg on Jul/01/03 said:
A slightly broader search would have revealed why shocks blow: a combination of acting outside their efficient range and valving for spring rates.

The KYB are a reasonable shock, if all you want are mild spring rates. The main reason they only warranty their drop to 1.5" is because most below 2" the efficiency is gone. The shock arm isn't able to compress enough for shock longevity. The other reason is because drops below 1.5" are usually too severe for the KYB to hold up.

I have been running the Neuspeed Race springs with Koni Reds for about 8 months, so far no problems. I drive very harshly, and my house is down a dirt road, so the suspension definately sees some abuse. Regardless, Koni still doesn't recommend the Reds with such a harsh spring rate. The only shock I have seen which is designed to run with spring rates like that are the Koni Yellow's. Most people will try to tell you that the Tokico Illuminas will work too, but they are actually valved for slightly lower rates than the Red's.


From this thread...
Quote: Greg on Jul/02/03 This is the type of question I like seeing in the suspension forum!

I have yet to get a manufacturer to give me a range of what their recommended spring rates for shocks are, but they will usually tell you if a shock will work well with a specific spring or not. I have found that Koni is even modest in recommending their spring.

From what I have been able to find, the Koni Reds and Tokico Illuminas are roughly valved for the same springs, with the Reds being able to take a little more abuse. The Bilsteins are great shocks. The less performance shock you might be thinking of is the KYB AGX which is definately not for the H&R Race springs.

The only shock that any manufacturer actually recommended for my Neuspeed Race (which is pretty much the same spring) is the Koni Yellows. I couldn't afford them, so got Reds, and in the 8 months I've had them, they work fine. I even live on a dirt road and they work well.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I've been doing a little reasearch too from previous threads. Looks like not alot of people have Koni Reds so oppinions and experieces are very limited. Im still waiting a PM reply from Greg, to see how his setup is holding up. Anyway, I thank all the people who have responded to this tread in anyway.
 

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I have Dropzone shocks with H&R race springs, they work great, and I've been running with them since the beginning of October '03, and they have a lifetime warranty, not to mention they are practically free
.
 

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Two updates on my shocks:

First of all, they are officially going. 2 years, countless hard driving situations, dirt roads, and I think Charleston finally did them in. I think I am going to take them apart and take a look at them soon.

Another thought I had recently: I drive an RS. I weigh in at least 100 lbs under most of the rest of you. That may be a contributing factor to why I don't have a problem with the Reds.

If anyone knows a non-biased race shop that has a shock dyno, PLEASE have your new shock dynoed and send me the results!!! If I can get a decent compendium of shock dynos, we can end these debates once and for all.
 

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I've been contemplating which suspension combo I should get and I'm pretty sure it's going to be GC's/Reds. If I end up getting the GC's, I'm going to stick with their spring rates of 380f/250r. Stictly a daily driver so is this setup going to be too harsh?
 
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