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Discussion Starter #1
The question is so broad and to expect a short simple answer is impossible. Books have literally been written just to answer that very topic. The question you ask has to be more focused.




There are 2 key specific goals to begin with and start organizing your build-up around. : peak hp and powerband location. Here's why:


1. PEAK HP IS DETERMINED BY HOW MUCH AIR FLOW IS COMING IN : KNOW HOW MUCH FLOW YOU NEED BEFORE YOU START.





PEAK horsepower is determined by how much air flow you get into the engine and the resultant cylinder pressure generated to turn the crank,... plain and simple.

Air flow volume is also called "flow capacity" into the engine. But flow also means whatever your engine inhales must be also exhaled. So how much burnt exhaust gas is removed from the engine after combustion is also important. Remember your engine is breathing.


That's why we ask you to start bystating up front your peak hp goal because once you have that, the size of the performance parts are determined by that specific flow goal - SIZE DETERMINES FLOW -If you don't state or know the peak hp goal, you don't know what size you'll need to buy : Then, it just becomes a wild guess and copycat hope and you don't want to be throwing your hard-earned money away on an unsure thing.


The SIZE of the intake system , exhaust system, cams, and compression are all inter-related - one part's size will determine the neighbouring part's size. These inter-related part sizes working together then determine your engine's volumetric (breathing) and thermodynamic (burning-combustion) efficiencies and have to be improved to make big peak hp.


one part's function affects or determines the other part's function. They are all linked and work together in unison as a whole. You don't buy a part without thinking about how it works with the other parts of the engine. Parts don't work separately and alone inside an engine, in isolation.






2. GOAL 2 - ANOTHER GOAL TO KNOW BEFORE YOU START BUYING PARTS :WHERE DO YOU WANT YOUR GAINS ( " POWERBAND LOCATIoN ") ?




Now that we have a general idea of sizing and that parts work with one another, you must understand this:

Bigger and more is not always better.

Beginner enthusiasts ask for more power but don't recognize that "power" is not just 1 number (eg. peak whp) and don't yet know how to properly read an entire dyno sheet.

Power comes on at 1000 rpm and goes to redline. The question you should also ask yourself if you are running all motor is:


"Where exactly do I want this maximum gain in torque range or "powerband" (which is approximately 1500-2500 rpm in width)to be located along my rpm range (redline)?"

This is the second goal that we ask you to state up front before you start modifying because this too guides your part sizing.

How big is YOUR powerband and where is it's LOCATIoN ?.






3. BE SPECIFIC WHEN YOU ASK A QUESTIoN




If you want us to "help" you properly on how to make power, please do NOTgive a laundry list of parts and ask for "our opinion" of whether it's a good list or not. We cannot read minds. We need to know the peak power goal, the powerband location or rpm range where you want the most torque, the application (race only, street, autocross, etc.), and your budget /deadlines.

Wanting more peak power won't guarantee that you will be going faster (in terms of both transient & steady state acceleration).

If you say I want my power gains everywhere across the entire rpm range then, you have to realize that this is impossible in an all motor engine. All motor engines cannot gain the same amount of big power everywhere along the rpm range. It can only make this over a certain rpm range. So, you must instead state where your peak torque will be along the rpm range so that people can help you select compatible parts that work together and deliver power in that specific rpm range.

If you don't know where the powerband location is best for your package, then have a look at other dynos' torque curves from other people's Integras and where the highest torque is made (powerband) to get a general idea.





4. INTEGRATE




Now here's the hard part:

You must tie in or link that powerband with the tranny that you are planning to use eventually. The tranny's gears will determine where your rpms land after each upshift. You want the rpms to land IN YOUR POWERBAND. So you either must choose a tranny that has gears that will do that OR have an engine that is tuned to make power starting at where your upshift rpms land at.


Then the experienced members can then advise or assist you in the discussion on parts selection or whether it's any good.

BTW going faster involves more than just the engine. Please don't sink all your money and time into an engine build up alone. You may get more satisfaction upgrading tires, tranny and suspension when it comes to 1/4 mile et's or faster lap times. The tranny's gearing ties in with your engine's powerband to lay down the most power to the ground at the right time.

Please don't rely only on the "BUTT DYNO"either...because the butt feels torque changes better (or pulling) in low rpms and not changes in the upper rpms and therefore it's lack of sensitivity to high end changes (which is more important than low rpm pull) can lie to you, making you think you are faster but in reality, you've lost power in the upper rpms and are slower.

So, when you ask for help about what to get, please do the experienced members replying to your question a huge favor by being more specific and supplying us with some relevant info about the car & the specific goals that we asked you to state...

start with the Articles though....it's all in the Articles Performance Section....that's how you get "on the same page" with everyone else here and we all can start at the same basics that are already covered without rehashing them.

Specify your power goal (eg. I need about 10-15 whp from 6000-800 rpm), or et goal (eg. I am running 15.3 sec and want to run in the mid 14's) , and tell us where in your powerband you need a gain the most [ eg. midrange (4000-6500 rpm) or upper rpm (6500 rpm-redline) ].

And please: Be Realistic.

Saying you want to run 12's and you have a 15 sec car and no money is not being realistic, is it?

If you want short answers with no explanations as to why you should choose a certain laundry list of parts and shouting out brandnames and their website shops, then we won't do that here. And you'd be wasting your time here. You'd probably get more of what you want and be happier on other honda or Integra boards.

Thanks
 

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Hey guys. Ive been a reader of this message board and forum for id say, about 5 months now. I have to thank all of you for really teaching me how learn on my own and ask questions when all else fails. There really is a ton of info on this site and you guys really seem to know what youre talking about. You seem to have the best of intentions for helping anyone with a valid question or problem. Just thought id throw that back to you guys that run this place. Keep up the good work.

Steve
 

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this is great. sometime in the near future i will be writing up my goals and how to reach them. more for myself than anything. you cannot get anywhere without goals. thanx MD
 

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Before I came here over a year ago, I had a Civic and I followed the basic lego-building principles. I think a lot of people were like that when they first came here. Reading these topics has definately been an eye-opener when it comes to understanding how cars work (as well as getting my hands dirty with the wrench) and knowing how to properly package performance parts. I can't think of anything specifically to add.

I think the main downfall as with most articles, is they could be intimidating to most newcomers to read, and a lot of them will ignore them and go straight to the forum posting "What should I get next?". The only real improvement I can think of to make is to somehow get more newcomers to read these topics.

one idea would be to have weekly quiz games where mods ask difficult questions that are covered in the articles/common topics. And reward people who win with little icons next to their name or something. I think this would also spark a lot of discussion about ideas that havent been discussed since the articles were written (and things do change so I think it would be a good idea).
 

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siegen on Jun/14/05 said:
one idea would be to have weekly quiz games where mods ask difficult questions that are covered in the articles/common topics. And reward people who win with little icons next to their name or something. I think this would also spark a lot of discussion about ideas that havent been discussed since the articles were written (and things do change so I think it would be a good idea).
i would enjoy this. good idea
 

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Discussion Starter #12
DeadLock23 on Jun/14/05 said:
MD is the font white for a reason? am I missing something? I can only read the first post when I highlight it all.


only because I'm using the dark background site settings color scheme. I'll ask MorningZ if there is any programming to change the white font to a darker color in the white background setting.


EDIT: I changed the font color to blue so that it shows up on both light & dark color schemes for your Site Settings.
 

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I think it's rather entertaining.. given that I'm sure some people wouldn't even bother reading the print in-between.. maybe they just maybe might read the highlighted color words,, lol, read it from top to bottom.. lol MD, you ee cummings you

-P2P
 

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lol e e cummings wrote poetry.. in his case, he wrote with lack of principles and rules, i.e. no punctuattion, capitilization, heck, the man rarely wrote in a straightforward sentence..

sorta

like

this

~P2P
 

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Discussion Starter #16
LOL that's great...a deconstructionist huh? no structure.


I might bring back the fun "determine which 1 is the fastest?" realtime quizes again but those take a lot of work to prepare and run.

I'll certainly consider your suggestions about weekly quizes.

as for trying to get new people to read the articles, that goes with the type of personality : if you're not inclined to research and prepare before you start and are always in a hurry only reacting and not preparing and are always scrambling & disorganized in the last minute , then sticking a flashing banner button wouldn't get this type of person to stop and read. They want their info yesterday. They always end up with a modification that has something that will break sooner than later or won't make big power and last.

this site can't help those people because they run their lives like a Lego build and never Integrate things.

This site is about tying separate ideas together into 1 big picture. If you are not of that mindset, you won't "get" this site.

If you're looking for the whole answer in 1 thread or in 1 post, then you've come to the wrong place.
 

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This was very helpful. When I first started on this site. Bout the only thing I knew how to do on my car was change my oil. TI has been a great learning tool for me. Ive learned a great deal since and still have much more to learn. But the information is there if you look. Thanks again.
 

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MichaelDelaney on Jun/14/05 said:
I'm bringing this back to the front to ask in 2005 to ask: was this helpful for people to help them organize , understand, and plan their buidup as a BASIC starting point ?


or was if it was not helpful then tell us why or where we need to clear things up.
Yes. It is easy to lose the direction you want to proceed if you do not focus on your goals. There are so many choices to make. TI has helped me to help myself.
 

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If you use the black theme this post is IMPOSSIBLE to read without highlighting... Maybe you should change the text color..
 
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