Team Integra Forums banner

1 - 20 of 65 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This thread will hopefully help serve as a guide for those wanting to install an LSD into their trans but need a bit of a walkthrough along the way.

Neither I nor T-I will take any responsibility for anything that may go wrong while an inexperienced person uses this thread to attempt an LSD install. The user of this thread should assume all responsibility for their actions. If you feel this task is outside of your abilities please get a professional to complete your install.

Begin with removing the transmission from the vehicle. This could be a whole thread in itself, but should be easily accomplished in a couple of hours with a jack, jack stands, some basic hand tools, and maybe a friend to lend some muscle.

I will be installing my LSD into my GSR trans, there may be some differences between the GSR/LS trans as far as specs and internal components go. Consult your service manual for your applicable model for appropriate specs.

once removed from the car your engine bay should look like this:



This is your GSR manual transmission on the floor of your garage:



Then place your transmission on a workbench or appropriate work surface with a block of wood (2X4 or something) under each side. This is very important because the transmission's input shaft extends out past the bell housing. If you attempt to place the transmission bell housing side down on your work surface without your wood blocks, input shaft damage can occur.

Here is how it should look when sitting on your bench:



A few pics of all sides of the transmission may help you with remembering where all bolts/brackets/components go later when your memory has failed you.









Next remove the back-up light switch w/ a 19mm wrench:



Then I mark and remove the reverse idler gear shaft bolt and detent bolts springs and steel balls.

This is the reverse idler gear shaft bolt I have marked the bolt head and case with one mark:



I have marked the detent bolt heads and case with two and three marks:



once removed these three should look like this:
Make sure the detent bolts/springs/balls are all out of the trans. You may use a magnet to get the balls out, I just tipped the case toward me and it fell out in my hand.



Remove all the brackets from the outer case and remove 16 case bolts with a 12mm socket.

The case bolts wrap around the entire perimeter of the case and here is a picture of where a portion of them are located. I highlighted a few of them with my handy MS paint skills lol! Just follow this row of bolts around the case and make sure you get them all.



Remove the plug that gives you access to the countershaft snap ring. This plug is a square 1/2 drive. Use a 1/2 drive ratchet or breaker bar to remove this. DO NOT USE YOUR IMPACT!!! You will very easily crack the case if you use your impact on this plug to remove or install it.



once removed you should be staring at this:



Use snap ring pliers or just some needle nose and hold this snap ring open as wide as possible



While holding this snap ring open, begin to gently pry the outer case off of the bell housing like so:





And Voila the outer case comes off



Here is what your now exposed gear stacks should look like:



More to come!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts
excellent ive seen the video on youtube of this but id always much rather just come to TI for an article thanks and keep it up!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Nice! i just bought a LSD for my winter build, this article will be very handy, thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
I think draining the transmission is one of those no-brainer steps. It may not have been a said step but it should be understood that you are taking the tranny apart and if you don't drain the tranny before-hand you are going to end up with a mess.


And yes LS's have a very different final drive and differential, or so I've researched. If you swap over the final drive and bearings from a GSR or ITR, into the LS tranny along with a GSR or ITR differential, you could follow this guide almost exactly. At your own risk of course.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
If the tranny fluid was not drained it would escape through the holes in the case where the axles go in the diff as soon as you set it on the bench as I directed in the steps...

I guess I figured that would be part of the common sense steps when removing the trans prior to using this guide.

In answer to your "question" yes drain the trans fluid first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Next addition starts now. This section will take you further into the trans disassembly.

Begin where we left off the trans outer case is off and your staring at the gear stacks...

Remove these two bolts for the reverse change holder:



After these two bolts are removed the reverse change holder will slide out with ease.

Remove these three bolts from the main change holder assembly:





Then, remove the main change holder assembly like this:



This is what you should be looking at now:



Now grab the 3rd/4th shift fork like this:



And slide the 3/4 synchro hub up to this position:



This will allow you the correct amount of space to remove the reverse idler gear and shaft.

The next goal is to remove this (reverse idler gear and shaft)



Notice the threaded hole? That was what the reverse idler gear shaft bolt on the outside of the case was threaded into...

Now lift up on the shaft to slide it out of the bell housing and keep the gear and shim underneath it together.



Now the whole reverse idler setup should be sitting on your bench:



At this point we are free to remove the mainshaft, countershaft and shift forks. Grab them in some way similar to me in the picture below and remove all these items together at once. Be very careful. Be sure to pull them straight up and out, if not you may damage the mainshaft seal on the inside of the bell housing. This may result in a leak or seal blow out. If you accidentally damage the seal it will need to be replaced.



I find it easiest to keep everything together on the bench like this:



After you have pulled the two shafts and shift forks out look down at your case. There will likely be two washers sitting on top of the countershaft's lower case bearing.

These washers look like this:



The lower one is concave. The top one is flat.

They should be re-installed in this position

------------------ <--- Top flat washer
\ /
\ /<--- Bottom concave washer

Do not reverse this, honda designed it this way for a reason and the position is not interchangeable.

Next, grab the diff and simply pull it out:



Set it on the bench:



Next installment should include removing bearings from the factory open diff and installing them onto the new Limited slip diff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Josh stated in his build thread that he is going to attempt to re-use the tapered GSR bearings, seeing as he said he hasn't noticed anything wrong before.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
That may be dependent on whether I find the bearing removal from the diff to be a total PITA or not...

But yes as Ben said, my plan at this time is to just reuse the tapered roller bearing setup.

As far as my understanding of bearing theory goes, tapered roller bearings have a larger surface area which should make them more effective at handling larger radial loads.

If anyone would like to refute that statement or help better explain the benefits of switching to a roller bearing setup please be my guest.

This thread is to be informative, so as much correct technical information we can add to it just further improves the thread!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,245 Posts
Josh,
Thank you sir, the write up seems dead on so far. I can tell you this bc im not lost in the trans yet lol...

Is there any special way to pull and press these bearings that only a honda tech would know?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Oops, no all my bolts weren't out. To contribute something, the lower alternator bolt is kind of hidden, and it's the long one that does go into the engine. Took that out and now my tranny's off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Wow, Back when i was young i tried to seperate a tranny case from my junk civic trans. Today im happy i was not successful. haha. This just looks like a pain in the ass. Good write up. Good job using many pics! I'll be reading up on this one for a while!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
jsheerin79 on Dec/20/10 said:
Oops, no all my bolts weren't out. To contribute something, the lower alternator bolt is kind of hidden, and it's the long one that does go into the engine. Took that out and now my tranny's off.
That's the starter not the alternator...

Maybe a how to successfully remove and reinstall a transmission would be a helpful how to thread too lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Bearing and VSS drive gear removal from stock open diff

This installment will show how to (and how not to) remove the parts from your stock open diff that will be needed for re-installation to your new LSD.

Let's start with removal of the final drive ring gear from the diff.

The use of an impact will make this an easy task.



Important Note: These bolts have left handed threads meaning righty-loosey, lefty-tighty

If you do not pay attention to the arrow on the top of the bolt, indicating a reverse threaded fastener, you will likely end up with something that looks like this picture below.



Yeah I was in kind of a hurry, not paying close attention, and ignored my own instincts when my half inch matco impact wouldn't not remove them going left... I'm dumb


Learn from my lesson here and don't do what I did.

Next is to remove the gear that drives the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) from the diff.

Using a shop press and a clamshell is the best option here but you may use a mallet and some sort of makeshift support. If you choose the makeshift option be very, very careful. The VSS drive gear is very fragile and you will break it if you are not careful.

This is how your shop press/clamshell should be setup:



Clamshell needs to be flat side up or you will damage the gear.

After the gear was about half way off I noticed it was starting to flex a bit so I rotated the diff 90 degrees to continue pushing the gear off evenly.

Like this:



Next is to remove the factory tapered roller bearings.

This step may be optional if you are not re-using your tapered roller bearings.

I originally planned to re-use them which is why I removed them but damaged one in the process and decided to upgrade to ITR style roller bearings instead that are recommended from my LSD's manufacturer.

This is how you should have your press/clamshell setup to remove the bearings.



Notice in the picture above the clamshell is flat side up.

This is the correct way to remove them.

The clamshell will not be able to wedge underneath the bearings inner race so you will be applying pressure to the rollers themselves.

This is not ideal but the first one I removed came off smoothly and did not stress or distort the outer race.

However, the second bearing was a different story.

The clamshell I used had a concave side was not big enough to fully straddle the opposite side of the diff.

Unfortunately this meant my only option was to use the concave side up (not good)

I made my peace with the fact that I was going to damage the bearing, and set it up like this.



This stressed the outer race and basically ruined the bearing...

So, my next installment should include how to install upgraded ITR style roller bearings onto the LSD haha oops!

Hope you all can learn from my mistakes, and this can help you better understand the consequences of incorrect procedures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
In this installment I will show you how to prep your case halves to accept the carrier ball bearing style diff bearing setup as opposed to the previous tapered roller bearing setup.

Also, I will go through how to install all the parts onto your LSD that need to be done before you install your LSD into the transmission case.

First you will need to make sure you have purchased some new axle seals.

Here are the two new axle seals I purchased. Pictured are the part numbers you will need to use. Remember this is a GSR transmission. I believe all B series transmissions use the same axle seals but just make sure you check your part numbers and insure that they are correct before you purchase.



Now we will remove the old axle seals, tapered roller bearing outer races and corresponding shims from both case halves.

Use a flat blade screw driver to wedge the old axle seal out of the clutch housing half of the case.





Then find yourself an impact socket or arbor press adapter that matches the size of the shim and outer race that are stuck in the case. Use a hammer to tap it out of the case.

FYI if you don't have an appropriate sized socket or press adapter you can get creative! I once used a broken garage door spring as a punch to knock out an outer race!



These should come out.



Next we need to do the same thing to the outer case half.

A little screw driver action...



And another little tap on the socket...



Now this should come out.



Next we are going to assemble all the new and reused pieces onto our LSD.

I ordered new diff bearings from MFactory as they are recommended for use with their LSD.

Each diff bearing also came with a small shim. Here is what these look like.



First I place one of the shims onto the LSD



Next, align the bearing as straight as possible and use a socket that matches the size of the inner race to drive it on with a hammer.

It is very important that you select the right size socket that matches the size of the inner race! You do not want anything larger or you will risk damaging the bearing.



After hammering or pressing the bearing will fully seat against the diff/shim, which looks like this below...



Now we need to install the gear that drives the VSS.

Place the gear as flat as possible onto the LSD and basically start hammering it on...



You probably would have better luck with this step if you used a press and appropriate sized adapter or arbor plates.

However, most of you do not have access to this type of setup so this will be how you have to make do.

I am going to warn you ahead of time, this will not be an easy task, getting this gear on is frustrating and takes some time.



Now, we will install the bearing/shim on this side of the LSD.

Place the shim onto the diff.



Now install the second bearing in the same way that you installed the first bearing.



It should now look like this...



Next, we will be installing the ring gear onto the LSD.

I purchased new bolts because I stretched a couple when removing them. Also, these are a fine threaded fastener, the threads tend to get kind of boogered up during removal regardless. That being said I would recommend you go ahead and purchase new bolts.

These are the bolts and part number you need to use. These are a reverse threaded bolt so you need to order them from your dealer. You will not likely find a generic bolt that will be the same.



Apply some medium strength (blue) thread locker to the bolts.



Now set the ring gear onto the LSD and install the bolts hand tight. Remember, these bolts are reverse threaded.



Then we need to torque the ring gear bolts.

I placed the diff in a bench vise between two blocks of wood to avoid damaging the gear.

Now torque the bolts to 74.5 lbs/ft



This is what your finished product should look like...



Enjoy
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
Nicely done!!!!

I do have one question pertaining to the outer race on the tapered differential bearings. As I understand it, the outer race is flush with the transmission housing - and it's a very tight fit. Are you saying that you were able to use an impact socket to tap it out?

Do you know what size socket you used? How difficult was this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Yes you can use an impact socket to safely tap it out. Exact size does not matter just as long as it is only contacting the shim/outer race and not the case. It is very easy as soon as you get to doing it you will learn that very quickly. Also, just a note, you notice in the pictures I am using a three pound baby sledge hammer? That is really not necessary. It is simply the only size hammer i had handy... Let me know if you have any more questions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Now it's time to cover transmission reassembly

Begin by simply placing the assembled LSD into the clutch housing half of the transmission case.





Next, place your socket on top of the LSD and give a little tap or two in order to ensure that the bearing has bottomed out in the case. You will not need to beat on it, so take it easy with the hammer! A dead blow plastic hammer would be best here but all I had handy was my baby sledge! Lol




Remember those two shims that go beneath the input shaft? Hope you kept track of them! Make sure that they are back on the case around the hole that the input shaft slides through. Remember the lower shim is concave the top is flat.



This is how you should have left your two shafts and shift forks...

If you did not leave them this way then put them back like this!



Grab them with both hands holding them with the gears meshed together like this...
(Sorry for a couple blurry pics coming up! I had MTF smudged on my camera lens)



Now set them back into the clutch housing. Be careful not to damage the input shaft seal on the other side of the clutch housing with the input shaft splines.



All the shift forks have their own bores in the case to seat down into. once everything is in its place you should be looking at this...



If you are not looking at this, then pull everything back out and try again.

Both shafts and the diff should spin freely at this point.

Had to throw in one of my favorite Honda banner shots



Next we will be installing the shift fork change holder assembly.

First thing, take the shift lever pictured below and place it in the middle position. You should feel three distinct clicks. You want the middle one! Picture below is what you are moving inside the case.

Note: The picture is not of the middle position so do not expect it to look like this when you are in the correct position. Picture is just for reference.



This is what you are moving on the outside of the case to get to the correct position.



Now place the change holder back into the case.



Slide all the synchro/hub/forks into the up position to get things to line up correctly. You will have to fiddle with the shift forks a bit to line them up with the change holder.



Next, place the three bolts that hold the change holder back in there places. Notice the one gold bolt, this needs to be reinstalled in the position shown.



Screw them down a little by hand.



Then snug them down with your ratchet. Don't over-tighten them and damage the bolts or case. But, in all honesty, if you don't know where to stop tightening by feel then you probably shouldn't be taking apart a transmission. If you really need it you can look up a torque spec but I did not use one because it is pretty much unnecessary.




Now, install the reverse idler gear/shaft in its bore. Notice the little pin in the shaft? See it's corresponding slot in the bore? Put two and two together...



Picture below is of the reverse idler gear and shaft installed properly in its bore...



Next, slide the reverse change holder fingers around the reverse idler gear.



Align the holder with its bolt holes and and finger in the two bolts. Notice the shift fork in the picture has a nub that goes into the reverse change holder.



Tighten the reverse change holder bolts down in the same fashion as the previous change holder.

Next thing that you need to do is align the washer underneath the input shaft top bearing with the corresponding slot in the case.

Here is a couple shots for reference of approximately where to place the tang that hangs off the washer so that it properly aligns with the case.





Here is the spot in the case that you want to line it up with. If you do not line these up together the outer case will not fully seat down onto the shafts.



Next, I slide the case back on by spreading the snap ring for the countershaft upper bearing and flipping the whole trans upside down to snap the ring into the groove of the bearing.

Then i flipped the trans back over. Now the case will be fully seated onto the shafts and and the case halves should be seated to each other with no gap between them.



Run a couple of case bolts to tighten the case down. Do not use hondabond or put all the bolts back in yet as this is a temporary case install in order to check clearance.

Sorry I did not get any good pictures of the last steps installing the case! I will redo these steps in order to get you better pics and play by play on my next installment of this thread so don't worry!

In the next installment we will also be measuring the clearance between the case and the diff bearing's outer race with a feeler gauge(s). This will tell us how much clearance we have with no shim installed. We can then use this mearsurement compared to the standard clearance spec to determine what thickness of selective shim to purchase.

Note: The LS and B16 transmissions that already use the snap ring style 80mm selective shim and ball/carrier bearing setups will already have a shim installed in the case. However, since we are converting from the GS-R tapered roller bearing setup there were different style shims used from the factory. This means we will need to purchase a snap ring style 80mm selective thickness shim in order to properly set our differential clearance. This might seem like gibberish right now to you but it should make more sense after the next update!

As always fell free to let me know if you have any questions I can help you with!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Dude this is definitely Article material. Great job Josh. I will be following this when I put an LSD in my next integra.
 
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Top