Team Integra Forums banner

1 - 20 of 109 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
i recently learned this "art" and i love it, straight-line racing isn't as much fun as taking a smooth in-control turn going fast. anyway, does anyone here that heel and toe's have racing pedals? if so, does it improve the ability to do it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,116 Posts
i want to learn to do this, but cheap racing pedals that slip when used like this most certainly do not, so get really good quality pedals, ie expensive ones if you plan on doing this technique.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,009 Posts
How the hell do you heel-toe?? I tried and it's freakin hard...my kneee always gets caught under the dash. I'm like 5'10 so I don't think height would be the problem. Also I put the seats all the way back for leg clearance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,669 Posts
i tried it a few times on my dad's truck..*no teg yet*..and all i can say is taht u have to use the method b4 releasing the clutch..like when u push in the clutch and brake, then use heel to step on gas high enough and fast enough to be able to downshift and release clutch..if u do it too late or too long and u release the clutch while pressin on the gas...ur gonna get a real jerk from the car...well..it was like taht on the truck..=P..just takes practice
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
i believe most japanese cars including civics,tegs have a wider space between the brake and gas than do the european cars...bmws,mercedes. the way i achieve this technique is to use the side of my foot as opposed to your actual "heel" for the gas for example: on adidas shoes, it's right where the three stripes meet the rubberized outsole. i hope you guy's get what i'm saying... download some initial d videos, and they have quick shots of the characters doing heel and toes. you can find a lot of sites that show this method. just type in " heel and toe " in a search engine. practice is all it takes. btw, you shouldn't have to turn your r. foot too far, while having the "ball of the foot" on the brake just rotate your heel a little, tap the gas for the rpm's to go up, shift, move your whole foot to the acclerator complete the gassing, make the turn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
basically don't try it corning at high speed
the way i taught my self was at a stop light
just reving using heel-toe. Then i practiced in rush hour traffic. (It makes it easier when you don't have to worry about shooting out the other side of the corner
.
And like Husker said don't use the heel... its hard as hell to actually turn your leg that far... just use the center of your foot.

and when you finally get to take a 90 degree right at 45 and stay in control you'll $#it a brick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,410 Posts
There's not that much to it... You're just applying the brake as you feather the gas, thus enabling you to match revs. It ain't rocket science, fellas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,546 Posts
i understand the method that everybody is explaining.. And i'm a big Initial D fan, and so i kinda understand how they use the heel-toe- method to drift.... But exactly what is the cars reaction supposed to be when taking a turn at highspeeds using heel and toe? I know that it's executed in the art of drifting but i just don't see exactly what it does, does that make sense at all? I thought it's hard to drift or can't drift in a front wheel drive such as our cars... I powerslide all the time in my integra but i just pull the e-brake, spin the wheel, and slam on the gas..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,410 Posts
Team, tell me which would be smoother:


1. You're about to hit an off ramp. You're going 90; you depress the clutch and quickly slow it down to 50 then shift to 3rd. When you shift into 3rd, do you simply dump that clutch while the tach is at 800RPM (IDLE);

2. or, while you're giving the car the brake, you blip the gas and bring the RPMS up to 4000RPM and mtach the revs perfectly (so you don't even feel the shift)

Either you do the "herky-jerky-i'm-only-16-downshift" or you do it like a pro.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
again the purpose of this is too take a turn at a higher rate of speed, unlike sunday afternoon driving where you brake and "coast" through a turn. w/ heel and toe you accelerate all the way through the turn, drifting is a whole new world, there's inertial drifting, oversteer, e-brake drifting etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Shouldn't you be accelerating through a turn anyway? So, why is this technique so useful? I am on the accelerator and in the proper gear as I enter the turn and stay on it all the way through. Braking in a turn only causes the weight to shift forward and create an imbalance in weight distribution. I find slowing prior to the turn and accelerating through to be a faster, smoother way, compared to how I used to do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
damn... ok let me clear this all up for you.

First: the heel-and-toe isn't using your "heel" and "toe" (its bad name for this technique)

Second: its easier to get some pedal cover that you can adjust so you can have the throttle pedal and brake pedal closer.

Third: you'll have your foot on the brake first and basically swivel your foot to "blip" the throttle to get it into the correct RPM when downshifting

Fourth: if your racing you should be only braking while the wheel is straight. Also yes, you shouldn't brake into a turn, if your loosing grip because your going too fast "in" the turn ease off the throttle.

Fifth: There is no purpose for downshifting in a drag strip
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,532 Posts
Yeah, I really don't see any point to heel toe in daily driving. Do you really need to go through a turn that fast?

For daily driving simply brake early, rev match while you approach the turn, then drive through the turn.

Another way of doing it, that worked well for me at the last autoX, is use the side of your foot to blip the throttle. I have slightly larger pedal covers, that enabled me to have most of my foot on the brake, but enough of it touching the gas where I could shift it and blip the throttle to get back into 1st.

I can't seam to swivel my foot very well, so this was easier for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
StyleTEG on Aug/28/02Yeah said:
For daily driving simply brake early, rev match while you approach the turn, then drive through the turn.

Another way of doing it, that worked well for me at the last autoX, is use the side of your foot to blip the throttle. I have slightly larger pedal covers, that enabled me to have most of my foot on the brake, but enough of it touching the gas where I could shift it and blip the throttle to get back into 1st.

I can't seam to swivel my foot very well, so this was easier for me.
That's what i mean about swiveling "use the right side of your right foot to "blip".... i guess its kinda confusing unless shown... i've written this many times but once again (this isn't directed to you StyleTEG) Buy the book Going Faster! Mastering the Art of Race Driving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,936 Posts
I've been trying to perfect this technique for a while now. I just can't seem to find a comfortable seat position to where my knee won't hit the steering column because i'm too close (prefer being close so i'm not reaching for the steering wheel), or the feeling of being way too far away like i'm reaching with my life to press the pedals. Its not like i'm short or anything... i'm 5'11"... my long legs are annoying. I need pedal covers. Maybe those short japanese guys have an advantage that way


Fuuma0083- i know what you're talking about. Thats what I do cuz i can't get my foot around without hitting my knee on the column.


head and shoulders, heal and toe heal and toe...oooo... i like that, to the signature batman!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
i still dont get it all the way..my cuzin went to bondurant high performance driving and learned there, ive tried couple times and gotten close but i dont know exactly how to do it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
If your finding it impossible to heel/toe in your integra, buy a gas pedal cover. Preferably Razo or some other good quality pedal. It will be analogous to training wheels for a bicycle. It will decrease the difficulty by ten fold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
HuskerHybrid on Aug/28/02 said:
again the purpose of this is too take a turn at a higher rate of speed, unlike sunday afternoon driving where you brake and "coast" through a turn. w/ heel and toe you accelerate all the way through the turn, drifting is a whole new world, there's inertial drifting, oversteer, e-brake drifting etc.


yes that is me in the F2000. and yes we use non-synchro racing trannies with a 6 puck clutch.

sorry I have to jump in here because I can't take it any more.

why do you heel and toe?

1. in racing trannies we don't have synchros and so the driveshaft speed must match the crankshaft speed for the gears to engage.

2. you do it (by blipping the throttle) to keep the engine in the powerband as you exit the corner. Staying in the powerband is the main reason for doing it if you want to do it in your street car with synchros.


the way you do it? it is NOT (and I repeat NOT) literally using the heel and the toe...the way you do it safely is to brake with the ball of your foot midway in width placed on the brake pedal and then rotate your ankle such that the outside edge of the right foot catches and blips the throttle. You rotate the ankle outwards hard to get a good increase in rev by at least 1000 rpm on the blip. You do NOT use your heel to blip the throttle. In the old formula fords the guys in the 1950's used to use their heel but this is not a safe method. The key is to do it in stages. Brake first. This is THE most important step. You brake in a straight line. Take the gear out into neutral. Blip. Put her in gear. Turn in aiming for the apex. Trailbrake. Squeeze the throttle hard entering the apex. The earlier you are back on the throttle the faster you will be.

In these cars we did 170 mph up the backstraight and had to gear down from 4th to 1st in 60 mph...that's 3 heel and toes quickly...so you better learn how to be proficient at doing these. You practice in an empty parking lot. Remember the most important thing is the braking.

To hear some people's explanation here was killing me.
 
1 - 20 of 109 Posts
Top