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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a newly built B18C1 with usdm ITR pistons, skunk2 pro intake and running stock gsr cams,injectors and obd1 ecu. Im guesing my CR is around 11.8:1
I was running stock NGK GSR plugs pfr6-11 and they ran great for about 50 miles then misfire and sputtering and wouldnt hold an idle. checked the plugs last night and found #1 looked great yet the top of the piston was black in carbon with deposits.Then #2 and #3 were wet slick black and fouled. also the top of the pisons on 2 and 3 were clean and puddled with gas. I have a new distrubuter and plug wires at least they look brand new...I just bought the car with the swap a month ago.
Need help or sugestions please!
 

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.....hmmm, that means there is no electicity flowing to the chambers of 2 and 3. first what you should do is find out what fluid is wetting up the plugs. if it's gas, duoble check your injectors and seals.....other then that you should be fine. if it's oil, then you need to check your valve cover seals, then your head gasket. if all that is straight, then you need to trace the power lost in those cylinders from the plugs on back to the distributor...
 

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ArticGSR on Feb/08/06 said:
I have a newly built B18C1 with usdm ITR pistons, skunk2 pro intake and running stock gsr cams,injectors and obd1 ecu. Im guesing my CR is around 11.8:1



you're running 10.8 CR if you're using a stock 3 layer headgasket. stop guessing. that's the kiss of death in this hobby.

find out why 2&3 aren't igniting or why your injectors are puddling.

start with the distributor and plugs in those cylinders.

check your injector nozzles in 2 & 3 to see if they're blocked or the harness is working.

a #6 heat rated plug with that CR is more than enough.

what gap and base timing are you running? try 0.043 in.

you are running too rich in 1 .

you need some reprogramming (i.e. tuning) to harmonize the engine to the new pistons.

what's the compression test on the new pistons after break in?

have you done your valve lash properly lately?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Rechecked my valve adjustment, was very slightly off on a few, nothing I thought would cause a serious problem. Checked out the distributer and found out its a del sol vtec part. a friend told me it should work the same for a GSR, TRUE? Going to have it tested soon. Got some BKR6e-11 and gaped them at .038. put it all together and checked and set ignition timing to 16 BTDC. started up and ran her about 20 miles. things I notice are it does have a low idle about 450 to 500 rpm. It also still feels like its stumbling upon heavier pushing into the throttle, any more than an ease of the throttle gets very stumbly, like its running rich. can see smoke kicking out the muffler when going half throttle. I have a good feeling that when I check my plugs again I will see the same thing happening. What is causing me to run rich?? Idle setting? would'nt a bad O2 throw a code? I thought with uped CR (10.8:1) I would be running leanner?? HELP... also Im gonna have to wait till after break in to do a compression test I currently have 75 miles on the new motor....how much more till break in you think?
 

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yeah it sounds like your distributor isn't sending any juice in the # 2&3 leads which would cause stumbling...rotor, coil, wires, plugs, grounds...the injectors fire (as evidenced by the pool of fuel in the cylinder but the plug doesn't. you don't get a misfire code cel?


aside: btw at 10.8 CR you don't need a 0.038 in plug gap btw...11.8? sure...10.8? try more like 0.040-0.043 and run less fouling.

for the cylinders that are burning fuel, you're running rich. is your primary O2 sensor OK? it's reading a lean stoich and making her run rich on closed loop. could be the sensor. you need to reprogram her.


CR has nothing to do with running richer or leaner.

air delivery & fuel delivery affect the air to fuel ratio (i.e. rich or lean).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks again. I will check and regap tomorrow to the .040Im going to have the distributer checked for sure and (even the batt.& alternator.)
Probably to take everything out of the equation getting a new FPR and definitely a new O2 sensor to install wouldnt hurt. Just want everything working before I decide to tune it....money and all being a huge issue!I want hondata of course...but Im trying to do everything I can without it first!
bought an A/F gauge...can this help me analize for troubleshooting or is it just a light show?
 

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the stock O2 sensor doesn't have enough speed response and resolution to show you the exact AF ratio at the exact time. The gauge only reads what the sensor is registering and so, if the sensor is slow and doesn't distinguish between major lean and minor lean well, then, the gauge only indicates that.

this is why people run a separate wideband O2 sensor on top of your other 2 primary and secondary stock narrowband O2 sensors in OBD2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you for the AF gauge explanation, I had a feeling those 50 dollor gauges were useless.
After pondering this whole thing last night, i have a terrible feeling and I hope to GOD I'm wrong! If for some awful reason #2 and #3 had little compression due to blow by or whatever... It would have all these symptoms!
low idle, fouling just 2 and 3 plugs, kicking white smoke on acceleration.
But, I just had the block walls bored and honed to 81.25 mm - new .25 OS ITR pistons-with rings, checked ring gap, tight piston wall clearence ...ALL THAT. What the !*&#^!
I guess the only way to see is a compression test.
Thanks guys....
pray for me!
 

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most people break the motor in for at least 300-500 miles to let the rings seat.

if you were running lean during the break-in period then you can have problems with ring seal.

your plug gap was too small and since you never got up to the working temp. range, your plugs fouled and misfired.

the heat range of 6 is plenty for 10.8 CR.


you can't blame the builder if the problem created wasn't related to assembly but instead was due to non-tuning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Since the builder, tuner (or non-tuning!) and driver is me...I only have ME to blame :) I like it that way!
I havnt had any lean running issues...only rich.
After much more pondering today...I can pretty much rule out my compression loss and ring scare I had.The plugs were deffinitely fouled by gas. also ran the car and pulled plug wires 1 at a time to see if I was getting good spark to the plugs...all good.so the last things to check are what is causing the rich mixture, and not focus on just 2 and 3 cyl. cause nothing is leading toward that at all.I guess 2 and 3 are just getting the brunt of the richness or something.
Im going to check the MAP and o2 senser, fuel press. and check for vac. lines and possible leaks... even though I dont hear any.I Believe its sensor related either o2 or some load type sensor on the intake --because the stumbling only happens when heavy throttle is applied, going up hill. no problem at all at idle till of course plugs foul.what i dont get either is Im not throwing a code for any sensors.now Im rambling!!...

now for the real stump I ran into today. You ready!
Just to start you should know that this b18c1 (is swapped into a 92 civic hatch)
They Integra harness wire coming from the IAT sensor that is supposed to run next into the Map sensor on the throttle body was never connected! sounds like...Ohhh theres your problem...oh no theres more confusion!
There was another harness connector coming off the back of the firewall (coming from the civic harness i gather) that WAS connected.So I thought "hey I just tuned and set timing on this thing without the map even hooked up! " so If I disconnect this DUMMY harness I shouldnt notice a difference cause the real connecter is right here coming from the integra harness".... NOPE when I disconected it , the motor cut off !!
If you can POSSIBLY understand what I am portraing it would be a miricle!For some odd reason there are 2 connectors for MAP the one that needs to be hooked up doesnt run right when hooked up and throws a MAP CEL code. The dummy one that I dont understand how it can be running to the computer, when its hooked up it runs with no code. yet I have this bad rich running problem??? Shouldnt the only way to run the MAP be from the integra harness?
anyway Im tired and hope someone has some insight on this part of the fiasco! Atleast a place I can start testing.
Thanks again,
brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
MichaelDelaney on Feb/09/06 said:
why would your problem be only in #2-3 if it was a map sensor or iat sensor issue?
Thats why Im so confused!
If there is no way that 2 and 3 whould somehow just get more of the rich problem...then I still need to be looking at why THOSE cylinders are fouling.
See....this is why I am on this board for help!
I didnt DO the actual swap, i just pulled it back out to do the rebuild. I was told its got obd1 ecu and a gsr hrness with 94 b18c1.
Im going to call the previous owner to make sure of everything today.
 
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