[JiggyKooAndy]

TURBOCHARGERS & COMPRESSIoN: THE MYTH!!!
There has been a long-standing myth with turbocharged Honda cars. For as long as I can remember, people have been quite concerned about having too high of a compression ratio, on their turbocharged Honda. The myth is: the lower the compression...the better. Well, this is not entirely true.
Why is a low compression motor good to turbocharge?

In essence, a low compression motor is good to turbocharge, because it is just easier to do so...and not worry about it. But is that what we really want to do as enthusiasts? Do we want to just slap a turbocharger on a car, and call it a day? Absolutely not. With turbocharging, comes the responsibility of tuning and care. If you are just going to turbocharge your car, and call it a day, then frankly, you don't deserve the luxery of boost! As well, might I add...that simply because it is easy to slap a turbocharger on a low compression motor and not worry about it, does not mean that it is right. I can guarantee you, that if you turbocharge a low compression motor, and fail to tune it correctly, you will end up on the side of the road, with blue smoke coming from your exhaust pipe.

Generally, a lower compression motor affords you more margin of error, when tuning. A slightly imperfect a:f ratio probably won't lead to the demise of your motor...unless you drive like a total jerk.

Why should I consider a higher compression motor, while making my decision of what motor will suit my needs?

Different from a low compression motor, a higher compression motor will not give you a large margin of error, when tuning. As stated before, if you expect to slap on a turbocharger, and call it a day, well then stay away from the higher compression motors all together. A higher compression motor demands slightly more TLC than a lower compression motor. But oh, the rewards are plenty.

Bottom line...a higher compression motor, pound for pound, will make more power, than a low compression motor. This works along the same lines as naturally aspirated Honda motors. You never see an NA enthusiasts spouting off about low compression do you? No, one of the keys to NA performance is high compression. So, why should it be any differnt for turbocharged applications? Of course, the routes to high compression are different (NA uses lightweight rods and pistons, that a turbocharged application would simply tear to shreds), but the end goal is the same.

Let's make an observation here. I am going to throw a scenerio for you...

Car A:
B18B (stock 9.2:1 CR)
Rev Hard Stage II
Thermal 3" exhaust
MSD 6AL
MSD Pro Cap
MSD Blaster 3 Coil
Holley 255lph in-tank fuel pump
AEM fuel rail
RC440cc injectors
A'pex S-AFC

Car B:
B18B (JE pistons, 10.5:1 CR)
Rev Hard Stage II
Thermal 3" exhaust
MSD 6AL
MSD Pro Cap
MSD Blaster 3 Coil
Holley 255lph in-tank fuel pump
AEM fuel rail
RC440cc injectors
A'pex S-AFC

Now for the sake of argument, let's say that both cars are well tuned, by the same tuner, both have an identical weight, both have the same slicks, both are boosting 1.0bar, and both are being driven by the same guy...at the same time (yeah, yeah, yeah...just roll with me here)! Now, which one do you think is going to come across the finish line first? Mythological thinking says that the guy with the low compression is best suited to win...right? Wrong. The guy with the 10.5:1 compression ratio is going to smoke the guy with the low compression.

Another point I would like to bring up is the misuse of the term "high compression" when it comes to Honda motors, and turbocharging them. In all honesty...10.6:1, 11.0:1, etc...aren't even really that high. Most NA monsters utilize 12.5:1 or higher...and some even as high as 14.0:1, in cases of extreme race. If you do some snooping around, you will realize that most of the really fast Hondas, and I'm talking sub-10 second monsters, utilize high compression setups, to achieve enourmous horsepower goals. Most of these guys won't openly discuss it though, so you are likely to come across terms such as "undisclosed compression", or something along that line. As I stated before, the myth is that low compression is key...so these guys want to stay on top, and the way to do it is hide the fact that they are using high compression, turbocharged motors...to propel themselves into sub-10's.

Reliability, and compression...

This is a regular question that pops up, and is quite valid. Frankly, as soon as you modify a Honda at all...reliability becomes an issue. A lot of us can testify that the proverbial "can of worms" sprung open as soon as we made our first modification. Many times, Honda enthusiasts will spout off the reliability factor, in Import vs. Domestic wars, when in actuality, they fail to realize that we are in just as much danger as those old pushrod V8's are, as soon as we modify our Honda engines.

Now, what is the solution? I have been saying it for a long time, as have several others such as Tuan, neouser, texan, and st00pid...TUNING IS KEY! That's the bottom line.

A well tuned higher compression motor will last just as long as any low compression motor. Tuning is not a factor that can afford to be sacraficed. You will not survive with an untuned higher compression motor, just as you will not survive with an untuned low compression motor.

So, with all of that said, it basically boils down to your own personal choice. Do not fear the B16A, the B18C1, or the H22A...etc. If you have the monitary requirement to turbocharge a higher compression VTEC motor, I would say, do not hesitate to do so.

You can have either Cheap, Reliable, or Fast

Cheap and Fast can't be Reliable

Fast and Reliable can't be Cheap

Cheap and Reliable can't be Fast

Tuning is not necessarily cheap when you have to do it every month on a turboed honda, but the above statement says it all.

J-i-g-g-y

 

[kingkash420]

why do i have the feeling you just copied that from somewhere?

i guess your very knowlageable on the subject even though you have a auto?

i expect things like this only from MD!

 

[integragsr6]

All i can say is, i agree with you 100%

 

[94gsr4d]

wtf dude why do you have that "J-i-g-g-y" on an article that you didn't even write geez, people like you piss me off

btw thanks to Mat3t4t3t4t3t4t3t4t3t4t3t4t3t4t3t4t3
over at hondalife.com and hondavision.com for that information that you've just read

here ya go
http://www.hondalife.com/articles/turbochargerompression.htm

 

[JiggyKooAndy]

because i found the article. i didn't write all that, damn that would take too long. i just think it's something interesting to show all your guys who are always saying low compression is the key.

 

[daNattyFatty]

whoever said that boosting a high compression engine shouldn't be done? that's all i wanna know

 

[JiggyKooAndy]

nobody said it shouldn't be done. but lots of people act like low compression is the only way to go with boost.

 

[BoostControl]

I dont see what the big deal is...it's oNE MAN's opinion and not really fact to fact info althought there is a bit of truth in there somewhere...??

Example:

"Now for the sake of argument, let's say that both cars are well tuned, by the same tuner, both have an identical weight, both have the same slicks, both are boosting 1.0bar, and both are being driven by the same guy...at the same time (yeah, yeah, yeah...just roll with me here)! Now, which one do you think is going to come across the finish line first? Mythological thinking says that the guy with the low compression is best suited to win...right? Wrong. The guy with the 10.5:1 compression ratio is going to smoke the guy with the low compression."

<----That statement is a joke...there is no way of saying just BECAUSE he ran 10.5:1 is why he won ! Total BS !! Not even possible to reproduce this sceniro in REAL LIFE *OMG how stupid* ! That's what drag racing is REAL LIFE ! Way to many varibles that can and will come into play. I get what he is trying to say...And I don't entirely disagree but this is freakin laughable.

The guy has a point here and there and some facts but for the most part is just an opinion. Blah

 

[boobstar]

yeah he might win the race but whos motor is going to last longer. think about what compression is and what turboing and supercharging do to ur motors compression. so lets say you have what u say is high compression which is already running the motor hard since in essence thats what higher compression is. now your going to slap a turbo on it and make ur engine work that much harder. higher compression is for all motor apps has been and always will be. why do u think spoon motors and type rs have higher compression. both were built for all motor racing. if you and i had the same setup just different compression i may lose quite a few times to you but if you had high compression eventually i would win when ur motor is blown at the line and mine is still running.

 

[BoostControl]

First off...Most turbo setups are NOT running HIGH compression ! The topic of the thread tells you that !

Secondly there is no debate that N/A Vs. F/I is more reliable ! We all know N/A is more reliable !

once again the sceniro is laughable...

This debate always gets heated (N/A Vs. F/I) always has always will !

You guys have your world we have ours. I respect N/A alot ! My choice is F/I ! While I may break more often, I will also be putting more HP down and ALWAYS out run you ! That is a fact ! That's why there are two entirely different classes in NHRA and IDRC in which to race.

Now now...A stab at you N/A guys yes...But all in good fun...I think it's best we all have choices and respect needs to be given to us all...You N/A guys have mine !

 

[JustinKlemgold]

But let's NOT turn this into a f/i vs. n/a....Next time an article is taken from another site, please state that it isn't yours...don't admit it isn't after a few people call you out on it. Just say "hey I got this info from www.xxxxxxx.com, what do you all think?"

 

[BlueTeg]

Next time an article is taken from another site, please state that it isn't yours

Its called plagerism. Give credit where credit is due. Maybe just list the the site & author for reference next time.

 

[BlackGSR]

Sometimes it makes me wonder why people say some of the things they do. This is TEAM Integra. We shouldnt have a war with eachother every other day about "MY LS Beat a GSR" or "Turbo vs NA". Geez

 

[Integra15lb]

Good ponit dude wetther its urs or not but the real bottom line is that everyone doesnt have the money to properly tune at high compression your rite that is for a seriously funded enthusiast now while im not poor or nothing i think i will still have lots of fun spooling up on low compression and who knows a compression upgrade latter aint all bad.

 

[Blaxican707]

nobody said it shouldn't be done. but lots of people act like low compression is the only way to go with boost.

I not's the only way, but it's a better + expensive = safer way --- to do it though

 

[95integra]

i thought you lower your compression so you can boost high. So isn't that like having a low compression + high boost is the same as a high compression + low boost. Am I right on that?

 

[ELMN8R]

Its simple, any fully properly tuned out motor of any honda line old or new will produce great results in different areas between eachother.

What are most people tunning there car for most? dragging? track? most people just upgrade for the hell of adding the manufactures name or highest HP estimated gains, and probably dont know jack about tunning besides there " shop guy" whos only doing what you tell them to put in your car. not every shop person knows how to recommend the best parts for track type racing nor draging. they all just try to reach high HP gains from dyno and think thats the best way.

Because of the "80" percent of jon dows that just aim for high HP .. your going to here the same stories over and over. Example, what what if the car with the 200 hp F/I beat the guy with 350hp N/A? why is that? one would say " oh because his was turbo!" what if was swithced? the 200 hp was N/A and the turbo was 350 hp? one would say "its because his was N/A !". then everyone finds reason to belive what ever they here or see first! its not about low compression or high compression.

ITS ABOUT PROPER TUNNING,MoNEY, AND USEING THE RIGHT PARTS THAT WORK IN HARMoNY WITH EACH OTHER!

Stop comparing high HP/ F/I / N/A numbers and just race it in the event it was tuned for with the "same" cars tunned for that event then make your jugments accrdingly.

Its like a average person on a speed bike vs a an average person on a mountain bike down a smooth road. Both have same gear speeds. The speed bike wins.
then again same senario but the mountain biker is more fit and beats the speed bike person. why? well his body was more fit .. but still his bike is not made for that event so it still wont produce it best numbers but no one ever gets to see the speedbike v.s speedbike and both persons are well fit, and are on the same event. to really comapre because most people dont know how to tune the cars for the event (import ethusiast) people with money but know knowlege.

To sum this up in one sentence =P
campare the real tuners with the real tuners.
And not the average money spender joe blow againts the tuners.

 

[Gvtec]

i thought you lower your compression so you can boost high. So isn't that like having a low compression + high boost is the same as a high compression + low boost. Am I right on that?

In the most simple terms, yes. Each still has their own advantage and need a well balanced CFM turbo to make each setup shine.

 

[TheRooster]

You end up sacrificing a dozen or so horsepower in exchange for a couple hundred psi less combustion pressure. I'll gladly exchange that droplet for reliability with low compression ratios.

 

[Etylorcen]

That is so stupid...of course a two equal cars but one has higher compression its gonna make more power and be faster. But with the lower compression it allows for more boost. Its a give a take. I remember this same article posted on h-t a while back.