[SoulEdge]

Ok, I've read all the articles and have been reading the TI forums for the last 6 months educating myself on what can be done with my teg. I recently bout a 1997 LS with 113k highway miles in good condition. I've started saving money for a full engine build and turbo setup and would like opinions on which of these 2 options would better suit my goals. First and foremost, this is my daily driver and must be reliable above all else. I am aiming for 250whp and from what I have gathered, a more midrange oriented powerband sounds like what I want as it will be more useable under daily conditions and attract less unwanted attention. I don't street race or anything like that although I would like to explore other forms of legal racing/competition in the future. Lastly, I would like to spend only as much as needed to achieve these goals. I don't want to sacrifice reliablity but if I can save a significant amount of money and only lose a minimal amount of performance, that is acceptable.With that being said, here are the 2 options that have come to mind.

1. Keep my b18b, bore to 2.0 liters and sleeve with GE or equivalent sleeves, upgrade rods and higher compression forged pistons (the higher compression will make things more drivable outside of boost right?) and a custom turbo setup that will spool quickly and be fun to drive on the road. I don't really need specific turbo input at this time as I know there is quite a bit involved and I am still researching.

2. Get a full b18c1 swap with gsr tranny. At first I was really set on the idea of building a 2.0L teg but it occured to me that if I was already using a b18c1 as my starting point, I may be able to get by without building up the bottom end and put the money towards a better quality turbo setup and still meet my power goals.

With either of these two options I plan on setting aside money for a new clutch to hold all the power, an lsd to put it to the ground, and a hondata with boost option since I've learned that tuning is defintely not something to skimp on. So, of these 2, please give me some input as to which one will better suit me. Thanks.

 

[TheFifthSpeed]

I would go with choice 1. I am really against doing a swap b/c of the fact that you don't know how an engine was treated before you bought it. With choice 1 you will have a strong engine and will gain some more low end torque b/c of the higher bore. I wouldn't go with the higher compression though b/c that will make you reach boost faster and you mentioned that you wanted something to kick in the midrange also it would be safer to use low compression to hit your 250 mark. I am looking to do something similar and if your looking for turbo parts contact John at www.swift-performance.com He was really helpful in creating a package for me which i plan to buy within the next few months. Also to get 250whp I would go with a stronger engine(choice 1) and the hondata upgrade.

 

[ScreaminTeg]

Well, seems like you certainly have done your reading.

I'd say go with choice 1 also. Boost the LS motor.

 

[DaBoyNBlu]

option 1 all the way. but when you raise compression, i'd suggest not much over 10:1... just b/c you want a bigger safety margin than most people would care about.

that, and 250whp would be a pain to tune on much else.

what do you plan to tune with? which hondata?

 

[SoulEdge]

Thanks for the replies so far. I plan on using the hondata s100 + boost option as it seems to be the most cost efficient.

Also, I have read a bit about gear ratios but I haven't fully grasped it. If I go with option 1, I would prefer to just keep the LS tranny that's in the car now. How well will this work with my proposed setup compared to the gsr tranny? If the LS tranny drops you to a lower rpm range than the gsr tranny when upshifting, then am I correct to assume that this is really preferable considering my goal of a more mid-range oriented power band instead of a peaky one?

 

[TheFifthSpeed]

Either pick a turbo 1st and get a tranny geared towards it or get the tranny you want and get a turbo that goes with it. Depends what rpm range you want. Let us know your powerband and we'll see which tranny and turbo would suite you the best.

 

[TheShodan]

The LS Tranny is a fine platform to use for your LS motor setup. I'd personally go with picking the turbo to be able to match your tranny to the fullest. LSTURBOTEG and and a few others have gone with the turbo I chose for them, and (RIP LSTURBOTEG'S CAR) they were very pleased. I even switched my GSR w/ an LS Geared Tranny w/ LSD.. I had to get used to some of the gearing because of the new ratios, but they were fine nonetheless..

 

[SoulEdge]

Since I already have a tranny, I think I'd be better of picking a turbo that will work well with it. Honestly I'm not sure exactly what rpm range I'm looking for in a power band. I just don't want to be screaming around town revving the hell outta my engine to enjoy it. If I had to guess though, I think for daily driving, something in the 4500-6500 range would be ideal.

 

[ScreaminTeg]

I think your tranny is the least of your matters here.

an ITR tranny is just as good for a turbo car as the LS is. With the gear ratios in the ITR tranny, it will actually improve your 60' times as well as cornering ability. The faster you go through the gears, the faster you are moving

 

[1994B18B1]

If you are going to bore to 2.0 liters and strengthen the internals, you are going to be able to make a lot more than 250 whp on an LS. Although plan on having about $8,000 to $10,000 for all that.

We just turboed my brother's LS and he put a little over $5,000 in it (we did all the piping work ourselves for free, he got a good deal on the intercooler and turbo, a good deal on oil lines, and on the Turbosmart wastegate and inline four manifold) He is also running Hondata and an upgraded clutch. We did all the work ourselves and he made 191 whp and 176 ft/lb torque at 7 psi with completely stock internals (109,000 miles on engine). It starts spooling around 3,200 rpm and is making full power at 5,500 rpm.

So with upgraded internals you are going to be able to make big HP numbers if you want...but it's going to cost a buttload of money. If you run Hondata it will be a reliable daily driver, but choose your manifold wisely (for A/C reasons). Oh yeah, the Inline Four manifold is apparently A/C compatible....but its not.

 

[FlatRate]

SoulEdge,

Eventually this will become another "B18C vs B18b" or "Shorter gears vs Longer gears for FI" thread.

So to keep this thread on topic, what you should be focusing on is budget instead of setup. With that said, I too would choose choice 1 over 2 because it may be cheaper as well as a better option.

Why? You already have the engine and tranny. You do not have to buy the B1 motor (and possibly tranny) and install it. Not only that but all the necessary things to get the motor working (ie ECU, etc.) You can probably save all this money towards building the B18b.

In the end, your B18b motor will most likely be built compared to the stock C1. This too means that the motor will be more reliable in a sense that its rebuilt compared to the used C1 motor that you wanted to get with no knowledge of its usage before it was sold to you.

 

[SoulEdge]

Ok, is this a reasonable price estimate to go the b18b route?

Bore and sleeve $800
ARP head studs $200
Forged Pistons and rods $1000
Heavy duty street clutch $300
Quaife LSD $900
Hondata s100+boost $450
Custom Turbo (including all parts - turbo, intercooler, piping, etc) $3000
Thermal 3" Turbo exhaust $600
Other parts/labor/dyno time $2000

Total = 9,250
About 2k of that is for the engine build but I think that it's worthwhile to know my motor will be bulletproof if I'm already sinking 7k into the rest of the project plus it will give me more headroom in the future.

OT, does anyone have any recommendations for a good, reputable shop in NC that can do this kind of labor?

 

[DaBoyNBlu]

NC? that's my homestate.

and sadly, no, you won't find a decent import machine shop. so you should mail it off for the nitty gritty bore/sleeving and stuff.

as far as installation... if you *really* want to pay somebody, there's eurospeed performance in raleigh (sak and i have both spoken to them about tuning), and turbo tune in greensboro. i've never spoken with them. i did all my own labor.

there's a bunch more shops, but i wouldn't trust too many of them. like speed styles in charlotte.