Team Integra Forums banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The opening debut of the RA106 in test form. How did it do against the benchmark at the Catalunya track in Barcelona, Spain ?

All Times Unofficial

NameTeam TireLapsTime Gap


MassaFerrari B671:15.664
AlonsoRenaultM941:16.2000.536
Button HondaM72 1:16.578 0.914
Fisichella RenaultM841:16.7281.064
Barrichello HondaM 52 1:16.7371.073
HeidfeldBMWM611:17.0461.382
TrulliToyota B1091:17.0681.404
PanisToyota B911:17.4221.758
Montoya McLarenM801:17.4811.817
CoulthardRed BullM761:17.5821.918
SpeedToro RossoM861:18.0922.428
PaffettMcLarenM681:18.2472.583
KubicaBMW M611:20.0164.352



A full second off the benchmark Ferrari.

Renault has popped up to speed after they debuted the R26-RS26 in Jan 10-13 Jerez test with a 1 min. 18.512 which was as fast as the Honda concept car 007 chassis fitted with a RA806E 90 degree V8.

Renault has surprised me with how fast they've come to be competitive in the test times.

In this second test session their V8 chassis car (R26) out of the box is only half a second behind the Ferrari, probably with a light fuel load difference given Fisi is also a full second behind Massa like the Hondas.

once again, the other Bridgestone runners aren't up there with Ferrari.

Here's the best ever lap times at Barcelona over the years to give you a relative comparison:

Barcelona:
Best Lap Time in 2004 (overall): 1:13.797 Takuma Sato (BAR Honda 006)
Pole Time in 2004: 1:15.022 Michael Schumacher (Ferrari)
Best Lap Time in 2004 (race): 1:17.450 Michael Schumacher (Ferrari)
Best Lap Time in 2005 (Overall): 1:13.552 Jenson Button (BAR007) - 7 April
Pole Time in 2005: 1:14.819 & 1:16.602 Kimi Raikkonen (McLaren)
Best Lap Time in 2005 (race): 1:15.641 Giancarlo Fisichella (Renault)
Best Lap Time in 2005 (05 spec): 1:13.552 Jenson Button (BAR Honda BAR007)
Best Lap Time in 2005 (Any car - V8 Engine): 1:16.647 Ricardo Zonta (Toyota TF106) - 01 December
Best Lap Time in 2005 (06 Spec car - V8 Engine): 1:16.647 Ricardo Zonta (Toyota TF106) - 01 December
Best Lap Time in 2006 (V10 Engine): 1:17.798 Gary Paffett (McLaren MP4-21) - 24 January
Best Lap Time in 2006 (Any car - V8 Engine): 1:16.583 Marc Gene (Ferrari F2004) - 24 January
Best Lap Time in 2006 (06 Spec car - V8 Engine): 1:17.242 Jacques Villeneuve (BMW Sauber F1.06) - 23 January
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
2 things I'd like to see this year is :

1. a better launch control (they lost track position so many times last year even though they had a great grid spot due to the poor launch program).

2. to be within 0.2 sec. of the fastest race lap time consistently (especially after the first pit stop and midrace ).

They just sucked last year after the first pit stop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
819 Posts
MichaelDelaney on Jan/25/06 said:
2 things I'd like to see this year is :

1. a better launch control (they lost track position so many times last year even though they had a great grid spot due to the poor launch program).

2. to be within 0.2 sec. of the fastest race lap time consistently (especially after the first pit stop and midrace ).

They just sucked last year after the first pit stop.
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more on both counts. Keep in mind, though, that the car dynamics affect the starting strength. If you look at how Renault was starting back in 2004, they had some rocket starts, but this was due to their car being fairly tail heavy. Now fast forward to 2005, they sacrificed their starting ability by moving to more of a neutral car for improved control during the whole race rather than just at the start(which is an obvious benefit). I think the key question is how much the car dynamics contribute to that ability compared to how much the launch control affects it. Then, the question is can there be a happy medium found between dynamics for starting vs. dynamics for handling and from that, can the launch control make up for the trade off. (Anyone else confused yet?)

And as for the second question, someone from Honda F1 was saying earlier in the testing phase that they had "worked out" their problem that resulted in the lack of pace after the first pit stop. What exactly that means is beyond me at this point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah. Renault reduced the tail heavy setup when their rearwing pillars started snapping in races under load in 2004. That's not good when you're at 180 mph and the rear download goes to zero and unloads the rear wheels...the back end coming around at 180 in an unexpected snap oversteer is no fun, no matter how good of a driver you are.

But remember ,the reason for the tail heavy setup for them was their 120 degree wide v angle low cg experiment.
That year was a bit of a write off for them when they couldn't make the wide angle engine produce competitive power. When they went back to their 72 degree v10 championship roots from the late 90's and updated it with 2005 tech, the car made the same ballpark power as the McLaren and Honda motor and so they had to repackage the chassis with the tighter V angle and that moved the cg to a higher location and away from the rear weight distribution bias concept. They still had great launches...in fact, when they qualified behind the Hondas, they usually could pass them on the first corner on the first lap without a problem because of Honda's crappy launch control.

Even when Button got pole here in Canada, he lost it at the first corner due to a poor launch.

Track position is everything. If you lose it , no matter how fast the car is, you're going to have to work twice as hard to get it back, once somebody blows by you so easily from the start. It's easier to keep track position, if your car is fast enough on the longest straight and a good braker even though it doesn't have the fastest lap time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you look at Fisi's time in the V8 Renault RS26, it's in the same ballpark as the Hondas and he was doing Michelin tire testing.

So there's 2 positives out of this if we presume that the Hondas are on intermediate fuel loads and/or intermediate compound tires:

They are on pace with the Renault.

We don't know whether Alonso's RS26 was fuel light and/or running on soft compounds which could give him a 0.3 sec laptime advantage if the Hondas are on intermediates.


Let's see how the rest of the Barcelona testing plays out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Barrichello tops the charts for the launched 2006 aero legal V8 cars for thursday's Barcelona Spain testing at Catalunya (disregard the Ferrari for now. The new Ferrari is designated the F248 F1 which was launched Jan 24 and not the F2004M. How much the 2 actually share will be determined later. Why Ferrari isn't testing the F248 ? Good question. ) :


1 . F. Massa - Ferrari F2004M V8 - 1:15.970 (+ 0.000 ) - 73 laps
2 . R. Barrichello - Honda RA106 - 1:16.361 (+ 0.391 ) - 66 laps
3 . G. Fisichella - Renault R26 - 1:16.365 (+ 0.395 ) - 68 laps
4 . N. Heidfeld - BMW Sauber F1.06 - 1:16.549 (+ 0.579 ) - 89 laps
5 . J. Button - Honda RA106 - 1:16.739 (+ 0.769 ) - 81 laps
6 . F. Alonso - Renault R26 - 1:16.754 (+ 0.784 ) - 109 laps
7 . D. Coulthard - Red Bull Ferrari RB2 - 1:16.885 (+ 0.915 ) - 43 laps
8 . M. Schumacher - Ferrari 248 F1 - 1:16.907 (+ 0.937 ) - 78 laps
9 . J. Trulli - Toyota TF106 - 1:17.250 (+ 1.280 ) - 85 laps
10 . R. Schumacher - Toyota TF106 V8 - 1:17.506 (+ 1.536 ) - 71 laps
11 . V. Liuzzi - Scuderia Toro Rosso RB1 V10 - 1:17.590 (+ 1.620 ) - 93 laps
12 . K. Raikkonen - McLaren Mercedes MP4-21 - 1:17.741 (+ 1.771 ) - 65 laps
13 . R. Kubica - BMW Sauber C24B - 1:17.992 (+ 2.022 ) - 93 laps
14 . P. de la Rosa - McLaren Mercedes MP4-20B V10 - 1:18.258 (+ 2.288 ) - 47 laps.



And Rubino did this with the McLarens (new 2006 launched MP4-21 V8 and 2005 dominant MP4-20B V10) testing on the same day!!! Whoa.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You have to wonder about that Ferrari F2004M and how they are transitioning the F2004 chassis to 2005 aero rules but with 2004 tires. It must be a total rethink starting from the successful F2004 chassis and not an evolution of the unsuccessful F2005 running on harder 1 tire/race compound tires.

on 2004 aero, the BAR 006 and early 007 (with the banned fuel tank) and V10's , they ran mid to low 1 min 13's at Barcelona.


We're running high 1 min. 15's to low 1 min. 16's this week on an admittedly colder track with less grip than in April or in the summer when Sato did that 13.3 in the BAR 006 V10.

The V8 cars are running consistently 2.1-2.5 sec./lap slower than the V10's on most of the tracks regardless of their downforce demands.


So the F2004M is indeed on 2005 aero and is slower than the F2004 championship car due to only the V8.


I'm going on the premise that F2004M is the "concept car" for the 248 F1. I didn't know which aero they are running at Barcelona. My mistake. I just presumed that the F2004 designation label means that they are running 2004 aero but that was a guess on my part and I was wrong.

At the start of 2005, Ferrari didn't have the F2005 . They launched the F2005 after 4 races (April, 2005).
Their Feb. 2005 launch car was the F2004M which is what they are running now with a V8 at Barcelona.

So my mistake folks. The test Ferrari at Barcelona is running on 2005 legal aero but it's not their debut 248 F1 launch car that they showed on Tuesday this past week at Mugello.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
Huh, that's odd. Why would ferrari wait after debuting?

Its certainly good news to see the Hondas up top on the pace chart. Looks like Barrichello is already looking pretty good in his Honda.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Maybe they didn't run it in order to keep the cat in the bag and not show their hand too early.

The first race isn't until March.

There's a long time yet.

My hope is that we don't return to another 2004 season where they dominated the races.

I'd like to see a 2-4 team battle for the championship that includes Honda in the hunt for the top spot.

Competitive racing is what will breed good engineering innovations that can trickle down to our cars eventually and keep the fans interested.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
SniperJoe on Jan/26/06 said:
MD, on that last times list, isn't that Schumacher testing the 248 F1 in 8th place?






Yep! I missed that! DUH!

LOL
I was so fixated on Massa and the cars ahead of the Honda that I didn't even look down to see who was slower than Button other than to confirm that the McLaren isn't up there ahead of the Hondas.

Even better!!! 8th place and 0.6 sec/lap slower than Honda is good!!! LOL

Never mind....

Barrichello tops the list of launched 2006 cars !!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
looks like they copied the 2005 McLaren MP4-20's tri-layer front wing but added that extra central channel scoop. Compare that to how the RA106's front wing attacks the high nose-lowered front downforce, understeer problem.



2005 McLaren MP4-20 Nose at Shanghai



2006 Honda RA106 Bilayer Front Wing/Nose



2005 Suzuka BAR007 Bilayer Front Wing (with crossmember attached to the nose removed in the Barcelona RA106 version)



note the leading & trailing edges, the end plate shape, and additional elements on the side of the endplate to channel air above the front tire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Friday testing was rained out.

The next testing session (6th Session) will be at Valencia next week in the southeastern region of Spain at the high downforce Valencia track where the BAR007 V10 ran 1 min 20.2 in preseason last spring 2005. So expect to see 1 min. 22.2-22.7 range for next week. It'll be a good sign of how well the aero is working. Thel'll be back in Barcelona on Feb 21.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
itv-f1 said:
JENSoN ENCOURAGED AFTER TEST
Last Updated: Saturday, 28, January, 2006, 11:59


Jenson Button reckons the early signs are good for Honda's new RA106, which was unveiled on Wednesday, after the team wrapped up its testing programme at Barcelona.

The Briton, who completed his run in the car before handing over to test driver Anthony Davidson, said the new machine showed potential in all the right places.

"Obviously after the launch of the new car, we were all very excited about getting the two cars out on the circuit," said Button.

"Everything went very smoothly and we did around a lot of laps on both days so we got some good running in, mostly reliability work and just finding a reasonable set-up.

"We're not there yet but the early pace of the car is good and obviously the most important thing is to have good long-run pace and we do have that."

The final day of the test was cancelled due to the cold conditions...

Honda's chief test engineer Mark Ellis summed up the car's run-out test as a success.

"The performance and reliability 'out of the box' have been extremely encouraging and we have used the track time to identify areas where we can quickly further improve the overall performance," he said.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
819 Posts
It seems that Honda has made an impression on Schumacher with the latest test numbers.

[url="http://www.planetf1.com/news/story_21974.shtml" said:
PlanetF1[/url]] Schumi: 'Watch out for Renault and Honda'

Although many in the paddock are predicting that Ferrari will bounce back with a vengence this season, the team's number one driver Michael Schumacher believes it's Renault that the other teams will have to watch out.
Having tested alongside the reigning F1 Champions at Barcelona last week, Schumacher had the opportunity to observe them, as well as his other rival teams, up close.

"Renault looks well prepared, as well as Honda - they also look to be prepared," the German told Autosport.

"After them, BMW seem to do a reasonable job, considering it's their first car.

"But, as I said, Renault seem to be best prepared - they are the ones to beat. They are looking very fast.

"This is the picture we get at the moment."

However, that doesn't mean Schumacher has written off the chance of winning his eighth World title this season.

Asked about Ferrari's new car, the ‘248 F1’, the German said: "We are quite happy with the new car.

"We are pretty reliable and we have small issues, not major.

"The speed is looking quite promising, so all in all we have come up with a car that will help us fight for the Championship again."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
819 Posts
And some excellent news from today's test to back it up as well! Yes, it is in the wet, but still a good sign.

[url="http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/060131192416.shtml" said:
F1 Racing Live[/url]]
Honda one-two on a wet Valencia circuit

only one lap for Rossi today...

Honda, Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and Red Bull were in action at Valencia today under rainy conditions at the Spanish track.

Honda drivers Rubens Barrichello and Anthony Davidson were the only ones to achieve times under a minute and twenty seconds. The Brazilian was the fastest, more than half a second better than Davidson.

Michael Schumacher finished third on the time sheets while MotoGP Champion Valentino Rossi only completed half of his first installation lap and spun off the track. There was no damage to the car but the Italian didn't go any further.

Williams were satisfied with their day, this time Mark Webber drove the FW28 while Nico Rosberg had to settle for the FW27C.

“Considering the circuit was wet throughout the day, we completed a good programme on both the FW28 and FW27C,” mentioned Williams’ Technical Director, Sam Michael. “Even with its tight packaging around the exhaust and cooling systems, the FW28 has not experienced any issues with burning or cooling, which is great. Mark drove the FW28 and completed 340kms on wet tyres with some long runs to check heat rejection numbers for the new car.

“Nico drove the FW27C and completed 316kms undergoing wet tyre testing for Bridgestone,” added Michael. “It was evident from the lap times during the day that Bridgestone have an advantage in wet conditions. We should get some dry weather running tomorrow which will allow us to continue our programme."

Valencia* - 31/01/2006

1 . R. Barrichello - Honda RA106 - 1:19.399 (+ 0.000 ) - 60 laps
2 . A. Davidson - Honda RA106 - 1:19.996 (+ 0.597 ) - 64 laps

3 . M. Schumacher - Ferrari F2004/248 F1 - 1:20.358 (+ 0.959 ) - 88 laps
4 . K. Raikkonen - McLaren Mercedes MP4-21 - 1:21.194 (+ 1.795 ) - 25 laps
5 . M. Webber - Williams Cosworth FW28 - 1:22.388 (+ 2.989 ) - 77 laps
6 . C. Klien - Red Bull Ferrari RB2 - 1:22.599 (+ 3.200 ) - 42 laps
7 . G. Paffett - McLaren Mercedes MP4-20B - 1:23.836 (+ 4.437 ) - 42 laps
8 . N. Rosberg - Williams Cosworth FW27C - 1:23.936 (+ 4.537 ) - 75 laps.

* Times courtesy of Williams Cosworth

/As a postscript, I almost feel sorry for Rossi, almost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
912 Posts
MichaelDelaney on Jan/26/06 said:
You have to wonder about that Ferrari F2004M and how they are transitioning the F2004 chassis to 2005 aero rules but with 2004 tires. It must be a total rethink starting from the successful F2004 chassis and not an evolution of the unsuccessful F2005 running on harder 1 tire/race compound tires.

on 2004 aero, the BAR 006 and early 007 (with the banned fuel tank) and V10's , they ran mid to low 1 min 13's at Barcelona.


We're running high 1 min. 15's to low 1 min. 16's this week on an admittedly colder track with less grip than in April or in the summer when Sato did that 13.3 in the BAR 006 V10.

The V8 cars are running consistently 2.1-2.5 sec./lap slower than the V10's on most of the tracks regardless of their downforce demands.

So the F2004M is indeed on 2005 aero and is slower than the F2004 championship car due to only the V8.


I'm going on the premise that F2004M is the "concept car" for the 248 F1. I didn't know which aero they are running at Barcelona. My mistake. I just presumed that the F2004 designation label means that they are running 2004 aero but that was a guess on my part and I was wrong.

At the start of 2005, Ferrari didn't have the F2005 . They launched the F2005 after 4 races (April, 2005).
Their Feb. 2005 launch car was the F2004M which is what they are running now with a V8 at Barcelona.

So my mistake folks. The test Ferrari at Barcelona is running on 2005 legal aero but it's not their debut 248 F1 launch car that they showed on Tuesday this past week at Mugello.

That is last year's spec car, they're not running the 2006 spec year car yet.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top