I saw an electric turbo and supercharger on ebay and they sound way too good to be true. Apparently they have most of the benefits of real forced induction without any of the disadvantages like engine wear or large cost. Obviously they aren't going to create the power of real forced induction, but these electric forced induction mechanisms sound like a cost effective way to create real power. Someone please explain.
Electric turbo/supercharger
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can you give us a link so we can see what you are talking about....i think i know but am not sure...if it is just like a little computer fan you put in front of your intake i don't think they work. They would creat little to no pressure and i don't see how you can get hp from forced induction without engine wear.
I've looked into building my own before, and the ones you see on eBay, as well as at www.electricsupercharger.com, are of the same design... It's just a powerful electric hobby motor inside a R/C jet's ducted fan unit. You can build your own for around $70 or less, iirc.
electricsupercharger.com claims to produce like 1 psi of boost, but that really depends on how much air the engine is drawing. The smaller the displacement and the lower the rpm, the less air required and the more boost it's going to be able to provide. So, it *may* be able to help out the low end power on an Integra, Civic, etc, but I'd still want to see it before I believe it.
It also supposedly draws about 50 amps. A 3rd gen Integra's alternator can only supply 90 amps max for the whole car, so 50 is a *huge* draw on it. So, it produces little boost and draws a lot of power; not very efficient.
That's not to say that the idea of an electric supercharger is bad, but you'd likely have to use something that produces more CFM and draws less power.
electricsupercharger.com claims to produce like 1 psi of boost, but that really depends on how much air the engine is drawing. The smaller the displacement and the lower the rpm, the less air required and the more boost it's going to be able to provide. So, it *may* be able to help out the low end power on an Integra, Civic, etc, but I'd still want to see it before I believe it.
It also supposedly draws about 50 amps. A 3rd gen Integra's alternator can only supply 90 amps max for the whole car, so 50 is a *huge* draw on it. So, it produces little boost and draws a lot of power; not very efficient.
That's not to say that the idea of an electric supercharger is bad, but you'd likely have to use something that produces more CFM and draws less power.
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Thank god for the search function! I nearly started a new thread on this. I just saw the same type stuff on ebay. I love easy HP. Is it something that would really work? I've got a short ram intake and I can see that fitting really nice. Maybe you could put a switch on it and turn it on and off. Upgrading the alternator isn't a bad idea anyway. Especially if you have a big system thumping in the car. So is this something that would really work. Regardless of how much power it draws, would it work for what it says it will do? I think I'm going to do a little more research on this...
Sounds to good to be true if you ask me. The dyno's are semi convincing, but I can't get past the fact that if these were actually as good as they claim to be they would have cought on by now.
The only way to get your money back if you don't like it, is to pay for dyno time, take a picture of the setup, and they only pay for half the dyno time.
The only way to get your money back if you don't like it, is to pay for dyno time, take a picture of the setup, and they only pay for half the dyno time.
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What if you scored a cheap one on ebay? Would 40 bucks be worth it to find out? The theory is sound. I'm really wondering about this. I asked the question on Autopia too. Surely one person over there will have an insight into this. I'm really pretty curious.
If I could get it cheap, and I knew of a place that had cheap dyno time I would probably get it to find out. I am just afraid of spending $100 on an hour of dyno time, only to find it doesn't work and I am out $50 
Maybe we can pool our funds for a "electronic supercharger" fund.
Maybe we can pool our funds for a "electronic supercharger" fund.
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CRAP CRAP CRAP!!! I'll keep this short
First I hate it when someone tells me something can't be done. so of course I spent 6 months looking into it.
Now for the engineering majors, please forgive me since I don't have my books or school stuff here.
#1- a 1.8 L engine running approximately a 12:1 Air fuel Ratio would require about 1661 cc's of air every two Rotations of the crank. that is about 101 cubic inches or .06 Cubic feet. So if you were Idling at 600 RPM you would consume 17.58 cubic feet of air. at 8000 Rpm you would consume a massive 234.4 Cubic feet of air per minute.
#2 air at sea level is approximately 14lbs. so that massive amount of air from #1 is @ 14psi. now if you wanted to "BOOST" then you have to flow more. if you double the rate it would be approximately 14 lbs of "boost" so if you were running 6000 rpm at a measly 1lb of "boost" your fan must be capable of moving 188.35 CFM and for 10 lbs of boost at 6000 rpm you need an ungodly 301 CFM!
#3 electric fans are rated by how much they flow at a certain rpm. I have yet to see an electric fan that moves faster than 10,000 RPM. however turbochargers can spin up to 100,000!
#4 in order to move the fan, you need to generate and electric current, which robs power from your crankshaft. turbos actually capture "lost" power that are in the form of hot gasses escaping your tailpipe. would you believe up to 50 HP in heat?!?
so, with current designs and technology this in not feasible. but then again all it takes is one radical thinker with a new twist on an old idea that could make it work (I'm thinking Neodymium magnets and high power capacitors)
Peace!
First I hate it when someone tells me something can't be done. so of course I spent 6 months looking into it.
Now for the engineering majors, please forgive me since I don't have my books or school stuff here.
#1- a 1.8 L engine running approximately a 12:1 Air fuel Ratio would require about 1661 cc's of air every two Rotations of the crank. that is about 101 cubic inches or .06 Cubic feet. So if you were Idling at 600 RPM you would consume 17.58 cubic feet of air. at 8000 Rpm you would consume a massive 234.4 Cubic feet of air per minute.
#2 air at sea level is approximately 14lbs. so that massive amount of air from #1 is @ 14psi. now if you wanted to "BOOST" then you have to flow more. if you double the rate it would be approximately 14 lbs of "boost" so if you were running 6000 rpm at a measly 1lb of "boost" your fan must be capable of moving 188.35 CFM and for 10 lbs of boost at 6000 rpm you need an ungodly 301 CFM!
#3 electric fans are rated by how much they flow at a certain rpm. I have yet to see an electric fan that moves faster than 10,000 RPM. however turbochargers can spin up to 100,000!
#4 in order to move the fan, you need to generate and electric current, which robs power from your crankshaft. turbos actually capture "lost" power that are in the form of hot gasses escaping your tailpipe. would you believe up to 50 HP in heat?!?
so, with current designs and technology this in not feasible. but then again all it takes is one radical thinker with a new twist on an old idea that could make it work (I'm thinking Neodymium magnets and high power capacitors)
Peace!
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Some of them promise over 240 cfm. If it really produces those kinds of results then can it really be a bad thing? I understand the math behind what Jackson is saying, but if the fan can really kick out 240 cfm then it should work, yes?
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Here is some very interesting information... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1844671652 I'm glad someone got that one put up there. Very good info. Now that is something that might be worth trying out just to see if it works. Much cheaper than spending a butt load of money on something that works just as well.
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Hmmmmm... they do say that, don't they? Oh well. It was a fun thought.
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Ok. This all makes sense now. Check out the thread in this forum. http://ubb.turboford.org/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003598#000000 They may be a little crass but you can tell that they know what they're talking about. I think I'll just skip this little mod. Oh well. Time to go search for more cheap HP...
Anyone ever played with the idea of a model airplane motor in the intake? a airplane fueled one (small mounted tank for like 30min of running-time in the engine bay?)
how many CFM can these bad boys put out? i know if you got a big engine'd one it might be able to put out what we need..
how many CFM can these bad boys put out? i know if you got a big engine'd one it might be able to put out what we need..
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Stopppp it. You'll never have a turbo for the cost of an airplane engine. Those airplane engines are good for propelling little aircraft through the ait that weigh less than a pound. Second of all you really want exhaust in youre intake? A turbo is a large centrifugal blower that is often spinning at up to 100,000 RPM. A small one can only produce about 15PSI with the engine drawing at the same time. Now youre telling me, a tiny little airplane motor can even produce 1/15th of that pressure? The motor would be pulling the air so much faster than it could push it that it would probably stop the airplan motor and start spinning it backwards. Please, enough of this. Its ridiculous. I dont mean to be mean, but the electric supercharger thing, or any other idea similar to it (placing little things in the intake to pressurize air) are the most retarted ideas that have ever come out of rice hell.
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okay, first answer.
#1. IF a fan attatched to your manifold could push that flow of air than (240 CFM) than yes, and maybe. as it experiences backwards pressure (when is moving more air than 1661cc's/2 rotations)the flow drops down, and creates resistance on the blades which goes to the fans motor. the fan must have enough torque and velocity to compress the air AND prevent reversion (air flowing backwards against the blades). those big steel floor fans could flow enough, but draw way too much current if they ran at 12V dc and are HUGE.
The amount or air a fan can move is based on four things. 1-surface area of the blades. 2-trim or angle of the blades. 3-speed of rotation of the blades. and 4- torque the motor can output to move the air.
#2. It takes power to move the air. turbo's caputer heat energy in the form of expanding gasses (exhaust) that wern't fully used up inside the engine. superchargers use mechanical energy from the engines crankshaft. an electrical version would require as much energy in electricity as the turbo requires in heat or the supercharger requires in mechanical motion. again, it is not IMPOSSIBLE but it is currently IMPROBABLE.
#3 how you Could do it... use a turbos first half to harness the exhaust energy and turn a highcurrent generator (aka an Amplidyne) similar to hydro-electric plants, or ... figure out some way of improving the efficiency of our alternantors (the same design has been used for DECADES!)
BTW if you do the turbo-generator thing... I thought of it first and I get royalties!
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#1. IF a fan attatched to your manifold could push that flow of air than (240 CFM) than yes, and maybe. as it experiences backwards pressure (when is moving more air than 1661cc's/2 rotations)the flow drops down, and creates resistance on the blades which goes to the fans motor. the fan must have enough torque and velocity to compress the air AND prevent reversion (air flowing backwards against the blades). those big steel floor fans could flow enough, but draw way too much current if they ran at 12V dc and are HUGE.
The amount or air a fan can move is based on four things. 1-surface area of the blades. 2-trim or angle of the blades. 3-speed of rotation of the blades. and 4- torque the motor can output to move the air.
#2. It takes power to move the air. turbo's caputer heat energy in the form of expanding gasses (exhaust) that wern't fully used up inside the engine. superchargers use mechanical energy from the engines crankshaft. an electrical version would require as much energy in electricity as the turbo requires in heat or the supercharger requires in mechanical motion. again, it is not IMPOSSIBLE but it is currently IMPROBABLE.
#3 how you Could do it... use a turbos first half to harness the exhaust energy and turn a highcurrent generator (aka an Amplidyne) similar to hydro-electric plants, or ... figure out some way of improving the efficiency of our alternantors (the same design has been used for DECADES!)
BTW if you do the turbo-generator thing... I thought of it first and I get royalties!
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Yeah, turboford.org did a test on them awhile back. All these "superchargers" are a completle rip-off. What's even worse, some people have already had problems with the fan blades breaking off and flying into their motor. Definately not worth trying. Just save your money and get you a JR supercharger.
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Later,
Roach
Later,
Roach
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