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Discussion Starter #1
I need to know which one is streetable yet performs very well. It also needs to be able to stay in the car for some time. Changing it once a year is no problem, but 2 or more times a yeaar will be streching it for me. I will be get Stainless steel brake lines and some special brake bleeders so I can do it myself without the help of another person. This is what the speed bleeder is. All I need to know is what size to get for my car.

Here's what I'm considering so far:

ATE Super Blue Racing/TYP 200
Motul Racing 600
Castrol LMA


Feel free to add any that I forgot.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Nevermind about the speed bleeder. The part number is SB10125 for both the front and rear. And here is the CHART for the size of the SB10125 with a 10mm X 1.25 pattern and overall length (in., mm) of 1.28, 32.73)
 

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I am using Motul 600 and Goodridge stainless steel lines with Porterfield R4S pads and stock diameter Brembo crossdrills. I have never tried ATE Super Blue but the blue stuff is not DOT legal...yellow is. The other autocrossers tell me the ATE stuff is great. Never tried Castrol either. At the very least you should change these every 6 mo. since moisture can get into the lines but the more changes, the better.

Castrol SRF has the highest wet BP of any brake fluid (518F).Next is Motul600 (421F). All others are around 280F including ATE Super Blue. Some people rely on the dry boiling point instead. Each fluid manufacturer has it's own compressibility and pedal feel.


DOT 3 & 4 are for ABS-disc, DOT 2 is for drum, and stay clear of high silicone DOT 5 if you have ABS.

I believe Gvtec is using Valvoline DOT 4. (Edited: originally I had said Mobil 1 based on a misread of an old SHO thread we had together).

More info to follow...I'm just in a bit of a hurry right now....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the input. I think an article on brake fluid would be great too don't you think? I mean unlike comparing clutching, the main thing you should really be worried about is the boiling point and if its DOT legal correct?

BTW, isn't the Castrol SRF like $77/liter? Thats a bounch of money for just a liter.

I upgraded my computer so I lost most of my bookmarks (stupid of me not to save them first). But I found a couple of websites that have comparisons of brake fluids.

Here's the some of the sites that i've found so far on this topic:

http://www.shotimes.com/SHO3brakefluid.html
http://www.bira.org/fluids.html
http://www57.pair.com/lane/bfluid.htm


Please post links if you have any more diverse brands and fluid comparisons that you may have. I'll PM Gvtec about the Mobil 1, but in the mean time, do you have any info on it?

Thanks a million!
 

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I'm using Valvoline DOT 4, as Mobil 1 doesn't make a brake fluid that I know. Checked their product line on-line and didn't see anything.


I view brake fluid and pads as "throw away preformance." Works well when fresh; quality diminishes quickly. I only focus on dry temps, as I change the fluid about every 4 month or after a "hot lapping" event. Wet boil temps are a good comparison for long term life, but I don't let the stuff stay in there that long.

Many of the die hard SCCA guys use Ford HD brake fluid. Stuff is super cheap and I'm told it's "darn good." I've got no clue, but the points leaders, that I know, use it.

Here are a few specs that I've found, from pegasus.

BRAND..........WET...DRY...PRICE
Castrol SRF....518...590...$77/liter
Motul 600......421...585...$11.95/16.9oz
Wilwood 570....284...570...$7.49/12oz
PFC Z-rated....284...550...$6.60/12oz
Castrol LMA....311...446...$5.09/12oz

Interesting how the dry temp is off from MD's quote. Not a missprint on my part... maybe Pegasus?

The SFR is OE for the prancing ponys. I'd hate to get charged for that at the dealership. I guess when you own an $80k toy, everything is more expensive.

I change to fluid often, as I feel I loose touch with the balance of the car on warn pads and boiled fluid. My daily driver hardly ever gets a fluid change, as I don't see doing anything preformance with a '87 Chevy Blazer. Every object has its priority.
 

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Gvtec on 08/June/2002 said:
...Interesting how the dry temp is off from MD's quote. Not a missprint on my part... maybe Pegasus?
I don't know. My quote says wet BP Castol 518 and Motul 421 above and that's what you have on the Pegasus list there...maybe another quote? (and no, I did not edit my post
)

When you and I talked awhile back, you had said you were going to try Mobil1 and so I assumed that there was one available when you had mentioned it but I guess they didn't make one...my mistake.

I'm glad I use Motul...good racing heritage and performance....still pricey though....how much does valvoline go for BTW (wet and dry BP)?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Come to think of it, I think Valvoline is the one that I'm using right now too. I bought it at Walmart. I think it was the Dot3/4 bottle though? Well, I'll go back and look again for more specific specs.

In the mean time, I'll be doing more research and look more into this as I can. once I get my SS brake lines I'll change it out together.

Thanks everyone for your inputs. I probably should be changing my fluids more than once a year to keep the performance in there. My current ones have been in there for like 2 years already. Thats probably why I'm feeling that spongy solft feel when the car warms up.
 

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it's amazing and dangerous to watch people allowed to go lapping with regular brake fluid. You see them pull into the pits with rotors on fire or the brake pedal all the way to the floor (that's their new upright pedal position!) and their brake fluid boiled off. Nuts. don't know how one of our local tracks can allow it but I guess that's what a waiver is for...you're on your own out there...talk to the other drivers before you lap to see who has what equipment (oh you still have stock brake fluid,... I see) and to get their Banzai Quotient (like IQ except the BQ measures their level of experience and anger management). This way you know who not to hang around on the track to avoid any later "issues"...
 

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Michael Delaney on 08/June/2002 said:
how much does valvoline go for BTW (wet and dry BP)?
Valvoline DOT3/DOT4 synthetic is 333/502 for wet/dry. Also picked it up at Wal-Mart, while in a pinch, for something super cheap, like $6/liter. Wally World sometimes runs great deals on Mobil 1 Trisynthetic at $12/5 quart container... like I'm going to buy that stuff anymore.

Durring my first track day, I did run OE fluid. The car had about 6,000 miles on the clock and the fluid lasted about 25 laps of a 1.3 mile track. Brake pedel felt like a Nerf ball and rotors were noticeably glowing. Went back the following year with Mutol600 and didn't have any problems.

I would like to upgade to a set of Goodridge, but I only notice fade while on prolonged track runs. Never had fade at the autox or street.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Michael Delaney on 08/June/2002 said:
it's amazing and dangerous to watch people allowed to go lapping with regular brake fluid. You see them pull into the pits with rotors on fire or the brake pedal all the way to the floor (that's their new upright pedal position!) and their brake fluid boiled off. Nuts. don't know how one of our local tracks can allow it but I guess that's what a waiver is for...you're on your own out there...talk to the other drivers before you lap to see who has what equipment (oh you still have stock brake fluid,... I see) and to get their Banzai Quotient (like IQ except the BQ measures their level of experience and anger management). This way you know who not to hang around on the track to avoid any later "issues"...
Believe it or not, I haven't even been out auto-X yet. neouser goes from time to time, but its not some big 1+ mile track. Its just a parking lot thing. My brakes went bad on daily driving, so that means its pretty bad for it to feel that way for regular driving since its not as agressive as Auto-X.

Jesus, I think I really need to change that sucker out of there! Okay, either do the Valvoline or Motul 600. I think I might try the Motul since its different and I want to do some comparisons.

How much should I buy if I was to get the Motul 600 in 17 ounces? How much should I get to be able to fill up my system and the brake fluid reserve tank? Just one 17 ounce container? Two? Three?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks again!
 

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source: s2ki.com

Arranged by DRY boiling point:

DRY: 401F -- WET: 284F --- DOT3
DRY: 446F -- WET: 311F --- DOT4
DRY: 502F -- WET: 343F --- Valvoline SynPower
DRY: 509F -- WET: 365F --- Motul 5.1
DRY: 527F -- WET: 302F --- AP Racing 551
DRY: 536F -- WET: 392F --- ATE Superblue/TYP200
DRY: 590F -- WET: 410F --- AP Racing 600
DRY: 590F -- WET: 518F --- Castrol SRF
DRY: 593F -- WET: 420F --- Motul RBF600
DRY: 610F -- WET: 421F --- Neo-Synthetic Super DOT 610

Arranged by WET boiling point:

DRY: 401F -- WET: 284F --- DOT3
DRY: 527F -- WET: 302F --- AP Racing 551
DRY: 446F -- WET: 311F --- DOT4
DRY: 502F -- WET: 343F --- Valvoline SynPower
DRY: 509F -- WET: 365F --- Motul 5.1
DRY: 536F -- WET: 392F --- ATE Superblue/TYP200
DRY: 590F -- WET: 410F --- AP Racing 600
DRY: 593F -- WET: 420F --- Motul RBF600
DRY: 610F -- WET: 421F --- Neo-Synthetic Super DOT 610
DRY: 590F -- WET: 518F --- Castrol SRF


Castrol has the best wet boiling point and so if you want to keep your brake fluid in for a longer time it's the way to go and why it's expensive. Remember brake fluid is hygroscopic meaning it likes to attract and absorb any water moisture from the air. So the wet boiling point becomesthe more relevant one as you keep the fluid in longer. Notice that Motul RBF600 (the brand I use) has a higher wet BP than Valvoline...and although the Motul is pricier than the Valvoline, it is affordable...unlike the Castrol which is for Ferrari owners.....
 

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please stay away from DOT 5 (silicone) brake fluid especially if you have ABS....

From TOV by Walter Tani said:
DOT 5 is SILICoNE based, which means you can't mix it with DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluids; it reacts chemically and forms a precipitate. If you want to use DOT 5, you have to disassemble the whole system and flush it thoroughly. Ditto if you are running DOT 5 and want to change back to DOT 4 or 3. You can mix DOT 3 and DOT 4 with no problems, but I wouldn't. DOT 3 will absorb water....; DOT 4 doesn't as much, but needs to be changed more often. For most performance-oriented people, DOT 4 is probably the best compromise. DOT 5 is a ***** to work with, and very expensive; I tried it awhile ago and although it prevents boiling and loss of braking power from loss of pedal height because of the improved boiling pt, it is much spongier initially, difficult to work with.
 

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MichaelDelaney on Jul/02/02 said:
Quote: From TOV by Walter Tani ....You can mix DOT 3 and DOT 4 with no problems, but I wouldn't. DOT 3 will absorb water....; DOT 4 doesn't as much, but needs to be changed more often....
If there is no problem mixing Dot 3 and 4, why does he say he wouldnt?

(im gunna change my fluids for the first time, im just not sure whats in there.....dot 3 or 4)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Most likely DOT 3 will be what was in there previously. Doesn't matter though, fresh fluid will most likely be better than anything thats been used for a while.
 
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