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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I think I wanna try to tune my car myself. Tuning shops are slim, and I don't trust them around here.


Here's what I want, or would like to be able to do.


#1) Have a wideband O2 wired up to my laptop.
#2) Datalog all the info while I make 2nd/3rd gear WOT pulls.
#3) Set the A/F ratio to perfect throughout the rpms.
#4) Also set the timing just right. (I'm really clueless about this part...)

So, what I'm expecting I'll have to do is:

A) Socket my ecu with a zif for a eeprom (reburnable chip?).
B) Have a chip burner?
C) Crome Pro? Or would hondata s300 be better for me? (Keep in mind I'm a total tuning n00b.)
D) Use that software to set up my A/F + timing.

Am I insane? Not knowing what to do is killing me.


What would make me really happy is if I could datalog and adjust on my laptop, with a WB O2 being plugged into my ecu, that has a reburnable chip in it, where I could make any changes I want without pulling chips/rewiring.

Like I said, I'm a tuning n00b. What's the most user friendly? Crome or Hondata? Or something better?

I'm only really willing to spend up to $800.

Please, please, let me know if there's anything here that isn't right. I know that there are tuning whiz's here on T-I that I can look to for the right answers, so please, let the enlightenment begin!! Experiences welcome!

Added Text:

Here's some info into my car if it helps:

460cc Injectors (from an 89 rx-7)
Crap tuned (wouldn't even say tuned) on a SAFC2
7 psi wastegate spring
Retarded the timing by a dizzy rotate
 

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Probably not a good idea for you to tune it yourself. Its not something you just pick up and play with. Youre going to need to do countless pulls on the street, its just not something for a beginner. The link in Jakes sig is invaluable, im a fan of Hondata myself, but CROME will be fine.

DIY CROME Tuning
 

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Danny50 on Sep/05/07 said:
Probably not a good idea for you to tune it yourself. Its not something you just pick up and play with. Youre going to need to do countless pulls on the street, its just not something for a beginner. The link in Jakes sig is invaluable, im a fan of Hondata myself, but CROME will be fine.

DIY CROME Tuning
I disagree, I think it is something that you have to play with to fully understand.

You dont need to do countless pulls on the street, that would only be for WOT pulls. You also need to drive around in a wide variety of environments. This is considered "part-throttle" tuning.

You surely CAN adjust the A/F on the street. If you do this, it gives your tuner MORE time at the dyno to extract HP by tuning the ignition timing maps.

You CANNOT tune the ignition timing on the street because you dont know how its affecting your power output.
 

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HeroOfTheDay on Sep/04/07 said:
A) Socket my ecu with a zif for a eeprom (reburnable chip?).
B) Have a chip burner?
C) Crome Pro? Or would hondata s300 be better for me? (Keep in mind I'm a total tuning n00b.)
D) Use that software to set up my A/F + timing.

Am I insane? Not knowing what to do is killing me.
To go into more depth, you can only do A on a CHROME setup with an ostrich eprom emulator. Chrome pro/hondata can both do very similar things. S300 is easier for a n00b because you dont need an ostrich, you just send data to the hondata via usb. You also dont need a chip burner with Hondata. You would want one in the case of Chrome, because after you dial everything in with the ostrich, you will want to burn a permanent chip. Step D would work with both setups.
 

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jameelrose on Sep/04/07 said:
head over to moates .net

get an ecu chip kit and HULOG and an ostrich.

then download crome and when you get the hang of it upgrade to pro.

for a wideband id recommend an innovate LC-1


[http://forum.pgmfi.org/
http://www.moates.net/
everything he said moates aslo now has a a/f gauge that they are selling as a kit with the LC-1 its called the O-Meter and its only like.........$50 extra. no complaints here yet with it
 

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MeltMan on Sep/05/07 said:
Quote: Danny50 on Sep/05/07Probably not a good idea for you to tune it yourself. Its not something you just pick up and play with. Youre going to need to do countless pulls on the street, its just not something for a beginner. The link in Jakes sig is invaluable, im a fan of Hondata myself, but CROME will be fine.
DIY CROME Tuning


I disagree, I think it is something that you have to play with to fully understand.

You dont need to do countless pulls on the street, that would only be for WOT pulls. You also need to drive around in a wide variety of environments. This is considered "part-throttle" tuning.

You surely CAN adjust the A/F on the street. If you do this, it gives your tuner MORE time at the dyno to extract HP by tuning the ignition timing maps.

You CANNOT tune the ignition timing on the street because you dont know how its affecting your power output.
I was afraid at first but now that Tepid has shown me how to use the 2d maps in Neptune and another one of our friends from the track showed us how to tweak AEM, we play around with our programs on a daily basis.

Make sure you dont just set it up and go out and romp on it, bring it up by rpm and keep checking the wideband just to be sure its compensating, then once you reach the full RPM maybe running it a little rich then you can begin to tweak it down from there until you reach the AFR you are shooting for.

Any other input on this subject? Maybe Mike or Morgan can chime in with a little bit of input..
 

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honestly the hondata s300 is the most user friendly setup. you can do everything with the laptop, no burning chips.

after buying all the parts needed to do the burning and dataloggings it might not equal the s300 but its definately worth the upgrade.
 

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crome has change alot in the past few months.... its not as bad as it used to be. some of you hondata users should check it out. you might be in for a surprise
 

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What if someone didnt want to drive around with a laptop in the car at the time? They would just want to hook up the laptop once a week after driving around with a stock GSR basemap to see what the wideband is reading.

Then you'd be able to slightly adjust, and let it be on its way again for another few days.

Would this be more Hondata user friendly or Crome?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Wow, I have to say THANK YOU to everyone who gave some input.

You even answered a few questions I hadn't asked yet.

I REALLY want to try to do it myself and learn something new in the process, even if it might not be the easiest way to go.

BTW, thanks for the unlock.
I've done my research, and the questions I had still hadn't been covered. Pgmfi.org has been a huge help too, if anyone else wants to follow the diy tuning route too...
 

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you dont need a laptop you view your afr, you just need a wideband gauge.

and there would be no need to "check it" weekly. once the car is tuned, there are no factors that would change the tune on a weekly basis.

i do however have my laptop in the car during my daily commute. i have a stand mounted in the car, i use the auto tune feature in crome pro and allow it to constantly adjust my target afr while cruising, in an attempt to aquire a perfectly tuned partial throttle map. i would not recommend auto tune for tuning the boost portion of your map.

as for the comment about tunning not being something u just do. i disagree. no one really taught me how to tune cars. as long as a you understand how an engine works and what will make a motor GO BOOM, you will be fine. you prob wont make the most possible hp. but that will come as you learn more. i wont call myself a pro, but i have about 20 cars under my belt and all the owners were happy w/ the results and none of the cars went boom.

take your time and go step by step, save every time u make an adjustment that way if u screw up you can revert back. im all about DIY, (except body work!, I HATE BODY WORK!!!!)

crome also has built in boost control (with boost by gear) which requires no modification to the ecu, unlike hondata.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
pothiawala786 on Sep/05/07 said:
What if someone didnt want to drive around with a laptop in the car at the time? They would just want to hook up the laptop once a week after driving around with a stock GSR basemap to see what the wideband is reading.

Then you'd be able to slightly adjust, and let it be on its way again for another few days.

Would this be more Hondata user friendly or Crome?


I imagine that you would have to keep your laptop in there for a while to get all the partial-throttle tuning perfect, however long that might take.

...and I'm getting the impression that if you constantly make changes, it would be much easier to apply them with the Hondata s300, without having to reburn chips.

...but then again, you can do 'real-time programming' with crome, and then save your tune settings and burn a chip for permanent use later.

Someone verify this please...

I think I'm leaning towards the s300 since I can do everything on my laptop in real-time, and save it to the chip for permanent use as well. I'd rather do without burning chips and pulling my ecu apart, when I could just do one simple ecu installation.

Does the boost function on the s300 cost extra?!?!

Not really sure yet though, the price for crome might win me over...
 

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If you want to constantly make changes, CROME paired with the ostrich is the way to go. It emulates a chip, AND can be changed on the fly...so no worrying about re-burning a chip every 2 minutes.

on the note of the laptop constantly in the car...I would say I make a trip somewhere and datalog/realtime-program 2-3 times per month. However, this is mostly due to testing the new CROME firmware (which is still Beta, thus the testing). Otherwise, I just leave my chip in...or ostrich plugged in.

The ostrich has 3 AAA batteries, and as stated by Moates himself, these should last about ~70 years, so there should be no issue with leaving the ostrich as your "chip".

FYI- the "Pocket ROMulator" is exactly what the ostrich is...but I've used a pocket romulator in the past, and the ostrich is by far way more user friendly/works with CROME 100 times better.
 

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the ostrich 2 uses a watch size battery and supports bluetooth for wireless tunning
 

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jameelrose on Sep/05/07 said:
you dont need a laptop you view your afr, you just need a wideband gauge.

and there would be no need to "check it" weekly. once the car is tuned, there are no factors that would change the tune on a weekly basis.

i do however have my laptop in the car during my daily commute. i have a stand mounted in the car, i use the auto tune feature in crome pro and allow it to constantly adjust my target afr while cruising, in an attempt to aquire a perfectly tuned partial throttle map. i would not recommend auto tune for tuning the boost portion of your map.

as for the comment about tunning not being something u just do. i disagree. no one really taught me how to tune cars. as long as a you understand how an engine works and what will make a motor GO BOOM, you will be fine. you prob wont make the most possible hp. but that will come as you learn more. i wont call myself a pro, but i have about 20 cars under my belt and all the owners were happy w/ the results and none of the cars went boom.

take your time and go step by step, save every time u make an adjustment that way if u screw up you can revert back. im all about DIY, (except body work!, I HATE BODY WORK!!!!)

crome also has built in boost control (with boost by gear) which requires no modification to the ecu, unlike hondata.
does crome control a boost solenoid or activate switched outputs for dual/quad stage controllers.

unlike crome you dont need 3 different devices to do what one s300 device does. crome, ostrich, datalogger, you only need one piece and for beginning tuners, the less complicated the better. i doubt he wants an entire battlestation in front of him when hes trying to figure out whats going on. thats just my opinion. im not the tuner here morgan is, but ive used the s300 and it is extremely easy to setup and make adjustments, especially at the track.
 
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