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so im having my car towed to mechanic tomorrow. my question is, should i just stick with getting another stock clutch or something better?
Clutch went out, what now?
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yeah- like 97teg said... you need to give us a vague idea of what you are dealing with. For example, are you still under warrantee? What are you future plans for the car? What do you have done so far? How much are you willing to spend? (most of what I would suggest would depend on the answer to the first question though). Anyway, drop us some info and we will all be willing to give you our advice- Bio
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if you plan on upgrading the engine to make more than 175 whp in the future then TBJH's advice goes down the toilet.
you size the clutch based on your power output. as the power gets higher, you need more clamping force. you trade chattering / less slipping and more pedal effort for more reliability and faster activation.
So if you don't plan to beat on the car and make more than say 175 whp, then TBJH's advice is pretty good. If you make more than that then you'll be looking to buy a new clutch again because you sized it improperly.
you size the clutch based on your power output. as the power gets higher, you need more clamping force. you trade chattering / less slipping and more pedal effort for more reliability and faster activation.
So if you don't plan to beat on the car and make more than say 175 whp, then TBJH's advice is pretty good. If you make more than that then you'll be looking to buy a new clutch again because you sized it improperly.
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how much is a type r clutch and are there cheaper alternatives to the type r clutch?
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3,266 Posts
look into exedy clutches... i like the one in my civic.
I'm always confused about "stages".Michael Delaney on Sep/03/02 said:
If I'm planning on more than 175whp, but also having a daily driver.. is a stage2 clutch an ok choice?
EDIT: ...cuz a friend of mine got a stage 3, and he has a daily driver still... no more mods than me... it just seemed extrenuous.
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which exedy clutch did you get and how much was it? how's the pedal feel and the clamping force?nospeedlimit143 on Sep/03/02 said:
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what they mean by "daily driver" is a car that's still pretty streetable. someone can mod his car extensively and drive it everyday, but it doesn't mean it's very pleasant to drive in stop and go traffic. i'd almost say that stage 3 is overkill unless you're making more than 250 whp.
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ACT Clutch Tech
I can tell you what I use: I have an ACT Xtreme pressure plate (2100 psi vs 1200 psi stock clamping pressure) and the ACT organic hybrid, sprung hub street disc. The pedal effort is heavier but barable unlike the ACT 4-6 puck springless hub disc which some people use incredibly on the street (I don't know how you guy can stand it in traffic but I guess you get used to any pain in the ass thing over time).My combination should be plenty to hold most N/A combinations around 200-215 whp but still make it driveable in stop and go traffic and for parallel parking. The springless hub puck discs drive me nuts, can you tell. I know, I know: springs can pop out in a power run in battle.... Most people choose the ACT HD pressure plate instead (1600 psi) which can handle 300 hp. I just wanted to make sure I got more clamping force down on the disc (no slip) when I race and chose the Xtreme. your decision there really. The pedal effort is less harsh with HD plate. You guys know about ACT's new redesigned plate for the DC2 chassis already because I've said it a ton of times here already.
The alternatives?:
Clutchnet Kush Lok sprung hub disc is supposedly quite good and can be used with the ACT pressure plates.
Clutchmasters Stage 3 (also has a sprung hub disc for street driving)
Exedy ceramometallic race disc and plate
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(made by Daikan Japan who also make the stock Honda and Spoon clutches). They do break easily though. You can opt for the wicked expensive twin disc clutch if you are hardcore...or order up an OS Giken twin disc clutch. People over in the military services stationed in Japan running hopped up imports say that OS Giken is the "bee's knee's" (meaning very good) of clutches...they are very reliable and come with bigger throw out bearings than the US clutches making them last longer with the extra clamping force.
I would stay clear of Centerforce since the clamping force on their plates are nothing to write home about IMHO.
Regarding stages: ACT doesn't believe in them either. You should choose the plate disc combination that will suit your needs rather than get stuck with 1 set grouping. A springless hub (or puck) disc may not be your cup of tea when it comes to higher pedal effort and chatter. You may need more or less clamping force depending on your torque output and driving style. Your priority may be fast activation of the clutch. For people with less than 175-180 whp a CM stage 2 is fine. once you get into the hardcore ballpark above 200 whp, a CM stage 3 is smarter. CM stage 4 are for full race and FI dudes.
ACT allows you to mix and match their race plate with a street disc or a race springless disc with a milder plate. More freedom IMHO.
Just remember to resurface the flywheel, check the tranny seal, adjust the clutch pedal throw to your liking, and change the throwout bearing on install. Break it in. I know some people don't think you need to but I don't hammer on anything until I know it's been seated properly for certain.
I can tell you what I use: I have an ACT Xtreme pressure plate (2100 psi vs 1200 psi stock clamping pressure) and the ACT organic hybrid, sprung hub street disc. The pedal effort is heavier but barable unlike the ACT 4-6 puck springless hub disc which some people use incredibly on the street (I don't know how you guy can stand it in traffic but I guess you get used to any pain in the ass thing over time).My combination should be plenty to hold most N/A combinations around 200-215 whp but still make it driveable in stop and go traffic and for parallel parking. The springless hub puck discs drive me nuts, can you tell. I know, I know: springs can pop out in a power run in battle.... Most people choose the ACT HD pressure plate instead (1600 psi) which can handle 300 hp. I just wanted to make sure I got more clamping force down on the disc (no slip) when I race and chose the Xtreme. your decision there really. The pedal effort is less harsh with HD plate. You guys know about ACT's new redesigned plate for the DC2 chassis already because I've said it a ton of times here already.
The alternatives?:
Clutchnet Kush Lok sprung hub disc is supposedly quite good and can be used with the ACT pressure plates.
Clutchmasters Stage 3 (also has a sprung hub disc for street driving)
Exedy ceramometallic race disc and plate
I would stay clear of Centerforce since the clamping force on their plates are nothing to write home about IMHO.
Regarding stages: ACT doesn't believe in them either. You should choose the plate disc combination that will suit your needs rather than get stuck with 1 set grouping. A springless hub (or puck) disc may not be your cup of tea when it comes to higher pedal effort and chatter. You may need more or less clamping force depending on your torque output and driving style. Your priority may be fast activation of the clutch. For people with less than 175-180 whp a CM stage 2 is fine. once you get into the hardcore ballpark above 200 whp, a CM stage 3 is smarter. CM stage 4 are for full race and FI dudes.
ACT allows you to mix and match their race plate with a street disc or a race springless disc with a milder plate. More freedom IMHO.
Just remember to resurface the flywheel, check the tranny seal, adjust the clutch pedal throw to your liking, and change the throwout bearing on install. Break it in. I know some people don't think you need to but I don't hammer on anything until I know it's been seated properly for certain.
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89 Posts
well i have a 94' so i dont have warranty or anything. i have free towing from my insurance so i use it.
heres the update.
my uncle (mechanic) said he put in a nagamichi?nagaguchi? (i dont kno how to spell it) clutch in my car, he said that he had to replace the entire clutch assembly because it was completely shattered. and he said its better then the stock clutch. total $440.
so i was wondering if the clutch is good or not, pedal pressure is much softer then my old clutch, im guessing its because the old clutch was very worn down? so yeah im done now.
heres the update.
my uncle (mechanic) said he put in a nagamichi?nagaguchi? (i dont kno how to spell it) clutch in my car, he said that he had to replace the entire clutch assembly because it was completely shattered. and he said its better then the stock clutch. total $440.
so i was wondering if the clutch is good or not, pedal pressure is much softer then my old clutch, im guessing its because the old clutch was very worn down? so yeah im done now.
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3,266 Posts
The exedy clutch was in the car when I bought it so i'm not sure how much it was. I'm pretty sure it's just a stage 1, which as far as hp goes on the car I think is adequate. Pedal feels nice and tight throughout. I am doing the clutch on my integ soon, and am seriously considering an exedy clutch. Of course i'm going to look into other alternatives before I commit to anything, but my experiance with the one in my civic has been good so far.dragontegz on Sep/03/02 said:
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480 Posts
I would not reccomend the ACT clutch disks. The inner spline where the input shaft mates to the disk is made of
a weak metal compared to the stock unit. If you drive hard you will wear this inner spline rendering the disk
WORTHLESS wether or not the material is still good or not. I did an engine swap recently in my TEG and the last thing I thought I would have to worry about was the ACT HD/SS. It had survived 5 9K overrevs with gear engagements from 3rd to 2nd, one of the springs was loose and the copper lining in the material all but DESTROYED the ITR flywheel in 13K miles. You cannot slip that clutch to launch like in the Stock GSR or even the ITR unit. The thing is on or off, even with the HD pressure plate. The engagement is IMMEDIATE, this almost slows you down if you dont have the TQ to accelerate that fast. I found myself tuning my cams to get the bell of my TQ curve to sit where I would return shift/acclerate to compensate for this... once I did that... thing was fast. I could open my perfectly sounf glove box, change drawer and center console dring holder from 1-2 and from 2-3 I could open my glovebox, even 3rd to 4th was a tough engegement up to the time I took it out. It feels great, but wears components too hard... I am going away from the ACT camp on my next clutch.
I am leaning toward Exedy, Clutchmasters or Action clutch with a kevlar lined disk, the inner spline on that disk is REINFORCED like a mother and built to LAST!
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We are putting on in my buddy's car with a 98+ JDM ITR tranny this weekend. In about 2 weeks I will let you know how it feels...
Replace with STOCK and upgrade when you dont need to make a replacement and keep your stock parts. Always mod with a backup plan. Aftermarket doesnt always work well.
Learn how to do the clutch work yourself. My next clutch I will do. once you see it done from beginning to end and make notes, and have a buddy to help ya out, you are there.
Mike
a weak metal compared to the stock unit. If you drive hard you will wear this inner spline rendering the disk
WORTHLESS wether or not the material is still good or not. I did an engine swap recently in my TEG and the last thing I thought I would have to worry about was the ACT HD/SS. It had survived 5 9K overrevs with gear engagements from 3rd to 2nd, one of the springs was loose and the copper lining in the material all but DESTROYED the ITR flywheel in 13K miles. You cannot slip that clutch to launch like in the Stock GSR or even the ITR unit. The thing is on or off, even with the HD pressure plate. The engagement is IMMEDIATE, this almost slows you down if you dont have the TQ to accelerate that fast. I found myself tuning my cams to get the bell of my TQ curve to sit where I would return shift/acclerate to compensate for this... once I did that... thing was fast. I could open my perfectly sounf glove box, change drawer and center console dring holder from 1-2 and from 2-3 I could open my glovebox, even 3rd to 4th was a tough engegement up to the time I took it out. It feels great, but wears components too hard... I am going away from the ACT camp on my next clutch.
I am leaning toward Exedy, Clutchmasters or Action clutch with a kevlar lined disk, the inner spline on that disk is REINFORCED like a mother and built to LAST!
Replace with STOCK and upgrade when you dont need to make a replacement and keep your stock parts. Always mod with a backup plan. Aftermarket doesnt always work well.
Learn how to do the clutch work yourself. My next clutch I will do. once you see it done from beginning to end and make notes, and have a buddy to help ya out, you are there.
Mike
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31,217 Posts
http://www.advancedclutch.com/V3/h025.htm
Are you talking about the old H015 pressure plate which was a rebuild of the stock pressure plate or the new H025 pressure plates?
I use an ACT Xtreme pressure plate with their organic hybrid street disc and don't have the spline problem you are speaking about.
I'd say the clutch held up very well considering the abuse you gave it. How do you attribute the wear to the clutch and not your driving style?
Mike,MikeSarrGSR on Sep/06/02 said:
Are you talking about the old H015 pressure plate which was a rebuild of the stock pressure plate or the new H025 pressure plates?
I use an ACT Xtreme pressure plate with their organic hybrid street disc and don't have the spline problem you are speaking about.
I'd say the clutch held up very well considering the abuse you gave it. How do you attribute the wear to the clutch and not your driving style?
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480 Posts
my driving style,
granted. I understand this. however I also have my stock disk and it never ripped out the inner input spline area and I drove on it for 36K! I will have to look at the paperwork and see what PP it was. It was sold to me in Jan, and it looked like it was on the bottom of a lake when I got it... they say its from the heat treating on the spline. It felt AWESOME though... I chirped 3rd OFTEN. Granted... I installed an ITR flywheel and added about 20whp and drove the piss out of the car to its DEATH... but I didnt expect to have to change the disk so soon. The problem wasnt the engagement as much as the inner spline wear where the input shaft met the disk. The thing displaces 3/8ths of an inch when seated on my input shaft, when a 30K clutch disk which is what we used in it's stead did not. It had NO play. The clutch disk began to rattle at idle, knocking around on the input shaft making sound. When I pushed in the clutch, it went away. This was due to the inner spline being worn. My mechanic has replaced alot of clutches in his day. He used to work on Mitsus alot and he always saw the same thing on the Turbo cars when they installed new clutches at the dealership. He says that ACT uses a different grade metal in the disk hub and it wears sooner than the stock hardware. I still had about 10-15K on the disk based on where the rivets were on the material. Also, the copper in the clutch disk seems to like eating up the flywheel and P/P sooner as well. I almost had to replace the flywheel! All I am saying is that I dont see myself using another ACT clutch DISK. I am hoping my friend's 6 rivet kevlar works out, like the clutchmaster's stage 3 disk he has in his action clutch we just installed Sunday. I want something to last longer than 15-20K, thats all I am saying.
granted. I understand this. however I also have my stock disk and it never ripped out the inner input spline area and I drove on it for 36K! I will have to look at the paperwork and see what PP it was. It was sold to me in Jan, and it looked like it was on the bottom of a lake when I got it... they say its from the heat treating on the spline. It felt AWESOME though... I chirped 3rd OFTEN. Granted... I installed an ITR flywheel and added about 20whp and drove the piss out of the car to its DEATH... but I didnt expect to have to change the disk so soon. The problem wasnt the engagement as much as the inner spline wear where the input shaft met the disk. The thing displaces 3/8ths of an inch when seated on my input shaft, when a 30K clutch disk which is what we used in it's stead did not. It had NO play. The clutch disk began to rattle at idle, knocking around on the input shaft making sound. When I pushed in the clutch, it went away. This was due to the inner spline being worn. My mechanic has replaced alot of clutches in his day. He used to work on Mitsus alot and he always saw the same thing on the Turbo cars when they installed new clutches at the dealership. He says that ACT uses a different grade metal in the disk hub and it wears sooner than the stock hardware. I still had about 10-15K on the disk based on where the rivets were on the material. Also, the copper in the clutch disk seems to like eating up the flywheel and P/P sooner as well. I almost had to replace the flywheel! All I am saying is that I dont see myself using another ACT clutch DISK. I am hoping my friend's 6 rivet kevlar works out, like the clutchmaster's stage 3 disk he has in his action clutch we just installed Sunday. I want something to last longer than 15-20K, thats all I am saying.
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31,217 Posts
oh. I thought you meant the PP wore out the spines on your ACT disc and you were attributing the problem to the PP.
Again I can't comment on the disc since it's on it's first 10K.
Again I can't comment on the disc since it's on it's first 10K.
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480 Posts
well, it went back in the box and I used a stocker for now... not happy the disk still has material on it too. I can send you an image if you like. I was pretty dissapointed with it.
When I first got my Integra (2001 GSR) I thought that the clutch felt spongy (way too soft for my taste) but I've since gotten use to it. Now, when I drive the sort of cars I use to be use to (German cars), their clutchs feel REALLY firm. I really miss it 
So I guess now I have a question: When I replace my clutch, I want a firmer pedal and a bit more "grab". However, I don't want the clutch to be so aggressive that it causes premature hydro failure(s). I would also probably put in a durable, light(er) weight flywheel (I put a light flywheel in my 944 and it was great: quick revs; easy rev matching). What would you'all recommend? I'm into quality and durability over lightest or fastest - my car's a daily and I'm going to keep it around for a while.
Thanks,
R
So I guess now I have a question: When I replace my clutch, I want a firmer pedal and a bit more "grab". However, I don't want the clutch to be so aggressive that it causes premature hydro failure(s). I would also probably put in a durable, light(er) weight flywheel (I put a light flywheel in my 944 and it was great: quick revs; easy rev matching). What would you'all recommend? I'm into quality and durability over lightest or fastest - my car's a daily and I'm going to keep it around for a while.
Thanks,
R
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