[TDARK1582]

My boy told me that one of his friends used cement in his block to strenght it, and while i was looking for info on sleeves i came across a post in which a person really did use cement for sleeving. What do yall think.

http://www.virgeweb.com/rage2/944t/20030429-Engine Grout Cement 4.jpg

Who needs closed deck? Why not use some engine block cement to strengthen the lower half of the sleeves where cooling isn't required, instead of reducing cooling to the top half of the cylinder/sleeves where cooling is important?

 

[AllShowgs]

Man ive never heard of using cement. I would like to know more about this as well. Very interesting!!!!!!

but then again I doubt it would last that long and what would happen if the cement cracked??? you would have cement pieces all in your motor.

 

[godspeed94]

that seems a little dangerous, if you want to do something do it right. lazy people end up doing twice the work.

 

[SilentRage82]

i cement chevy blocks all the time, never a problem, nor does it crack. if you use the right cement you wont have a problem

 

[SilentRage82]

if you want your block sleeved, goto goldenEaglemfg.com i use them all the time for honda blocks

 

[sneeedle]

that looks like it would block off the water jackets, and cause severe engine damage almost instantly..

edit:
Also, the bottom of our stock sleves arent where the problems exist, its the top due to the open deck.

 

[prophecy118]

Well theres only one way to know if it would be good for the engine or not. And that is to test it.

You guys should stop criticizing the hell outa everything if you havnt tried it.

Trying something new doenst mean being lazy. Thats how racing evolves, people try new things.

Some things work, some dont.

 

[ImportRacer3]

When cement gets hot it expands. I'm not really saying anything specific but just kind of throwing that out there.

 

[mikeedge]

There is a HUGGEE thread about this on honda-tech. Someone does a run through on how to actually do it.


I personally dont know the pros or cons.

 

[tepid1]

HAHAHA! This thread is great.... filling the block with cement!?!?!

Thanks for the laugh.... I needed that.

This is the thread that Mike was talking about. Here.

 

[Justateg]

Im Amazed and speechless, becuase im laughing so hard

 

[ScreaminTeg]

Im Amazed and speechless, becuase im laughing so hard

What's to laugh at? I don't laugh at other people's idea just because i may or may not try them on my own vehicle. It's much harder to do R&D on your own then rely on info that's already there.

 

[xunszrox]

Been brought up before here on TI.

 

[GSR_J]

Let's go through some of the pros and cons with using cement or Devcon as a block guard.

I'll start listing the cons since I can't think of any pros right now

Cons:
-Heavy.

-Concrete, Devcon, and a B series block have different thermal expansion rates. Something's going to crack.

-You lose all that coolant capacity.

-When the concrete erodes, coolant filtration will become an issue.

-When the concrete/Devcon sets, align boring of the main journals and boring of the cylinders will be necessary.

-This will make posting cylinders obsolete?

-Heavy.

 

[GSR_J]

that looks like it would block off the water jackets, and cause severe engine damage almost instantly..

edit:
Also, the bottom of our stock sleves arent where the problems exist, its the top due to the open deck.

It's actually approximately 2/3 up that the major axis sideloading is greatest and not at the top. This is where Endyn posts their sleeves.

Filling the bottom of your block with concrete isn't a wise thing to do, nor will it benefit the engine in any way.

 

[xenocron]

I think if you refer to it a 'cement' people think of it like morter...its really Epoxy, not cement.

There have been PLENTY of people to do this in the past and there will be plenty more.

If you do it the right way, you fill the bottom of the block with rock salt, up to the highest level of the water pump. Put in approx 1lb of Devcon, and let harden (there are a few more steps in here). While it is soft, put in 'straws' to allow for water to pass through as it normall would, like in a closed deck design.

I know someone who did this on there personal B16 and for 3 long race seasons raped the $hit out of their motor @ 32psi until a piston finally gave way...with zero cooling issues.

Daily drving may be another story...

 

[Clean]

When cement gets hot it expands. I'm not really saying anything specific but just kind of throwing that out there.

i'm not sticking up for it, but cement has 1/2 the thermal expansion rate of aluminum...

but why do it? It's freakin' heavy! Engines are made out of aluminum to save WEIGHT. Why not just drive around with a big boulder in your trunk?

Then what happens when it starts to break off? There's always dust present too!

I've seen people try and save a buck, but sh*t, this is the stupidest idea i've ever heard of...

 

[99Gsrpower]

engineers and automotive manufacturers used aluminum + cast iron material on blocks for a reason..... save up money and take it to a machine shop or head/block specialists.....

 

[BolanosAV]

no one should shoot it down till we have good results. i mean thinking about it .... the "cement" does expand and shrink at different rates than the sleeves but isnt that the case with aftermarket sleeves and block guards as well? although they probably expand and shrink closer to the sleeves the pistons are in. but i believe this will work fine as long as the cement is blocking the sections of the sleeves where most of the stress is put based upon their rod ratio....

for example using the ls rod ratio and not protecting the middle section of the sleeves which is where most stress is put in ls and b20 engines.. would just be begging for problems like cracking or warping.

and for everyone who is saying that its gona add a lot of weight....

assuming it works in allowing the engine to reach a pretty high psi... the power produced will more than make up for the couple of pounds added to the block... and its not a lot of weight... maybe what 20-30lbs? and obviously anyone whos gona be running more than like 15psi probably wont be using this as a daily driver and more as a drag car. and im sure theyll reduce the weight of the overall car.

 

[Clean]

yeah, i'm shooting it down. BIGTIME. Compressive strength of cement is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 300-3000 psi, depending on the mixture. Aluminum is 27000psi...

If that isn't a HUGE indicator of how retarded this is to save a buck, then have fun on the moon...

Aftermarket sleeves are made from aluminum. Same as the block, so they expand at the same rate. PLUS, they're strong and won't deform from the expansion of the stock sleeve...

100 lb of weight = 1/10th of a second in the quarter mile (roughly). When 1/10th is the difference between getting smoked and winning... I'd rather spend the few hundred bucks on an aluminum block guard!

This is just plain old dumb...