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Discussion Starter #1
well, i've read most of MD's articles on cams and engine package many times over and over again, but i'm having a hard time grasping the principles in selecting the right cams. all the info is just overwhelming. anyway, i want to try to remain street-legal, so i want to get some mild cams. i was just wondering from looking at these cam specs can anyone give me an idea of what the powerband will look like?

crower 63402A
INTAKE lift - 11.83 mm,duration - 232 @1 mm
EXHAUST lift - 11.81 mm, duration - 228 @1 mm

63403
INTAKE lift - 11.98 mm,duration - 246 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 11.83 mm, duration - 238 @1mm

skunk 2 Stage I
INTAKE lift- 11.58 mm, duration 252 @ 1mm
EXHAUST lift - 10.9 mm, duration 249 @1mm

i have a 96 gsr. currently i have an aem cai and tanabe rm exhaust. as far as the exhaust goes, i plan for a dc 4-1 w/2.5" collector and custom 2.5" piping and a apex n1 or 5zigen muffler. or should i just use the muffler from my tanabe? should i change to a short ram? should i upgrade any fuel components such as injectors or fpr? i don't really have a goal of how much power i want, but i do want a powerband in the mid to hi range. for now, i just want to consider going as far as "bolt-ons" will go. don't want any machine work(p&p) done yet. i'll also get a vafc to tune it, hopefully a hondata when i'm satisfied w/the setup. realistically, it will be a while until i get to this point, so for now i'm trying to do the most research as possible reading all the forums and these were the things i'm considering. i would like your very honest opinions. if there's other components i left out that should be upgraded let me know please. thanks.
 

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i believe your tanabe muffler will have a 2.36" inlet and wont be a good muffler for you 2.5" setup. you would have to get a FPR and VAFC for tuning purposes. as for injectors, your stock injectors can handle around 66 psi before injector life is reduced. when upgrading injectors, 280 cc @ 42 psi FPR Prelude injectors after '97 (saturated type ) would work great. and a upgraded fuel pump also. i dont know the powerband of the crowers....but the skunks stage 1 powerband is 6k-8k.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks for the reply soul. yeah i figured that for the tanabe. i want to get an n1 style muffler, but don't know who makes then w/a 2.5" inlet. how about using the 80mm model apex? or would this be too big? i mean it's only the muffler part. better to go bigger than smaller right? the smsp and hytech are pricey to me. oh yeah i forgot to mention i'll be getting the carsound 2.5" cat of course. i'm not going to raise the redline nor upgrading the valvetrain so then i'm down to the skunk 1 or crower 402a since the 403's require upgrade. a mild street setup is all i want. so does anyone have any ideas on the crower's powerband? what's the LEAST hp i can expect before tuning? (i know you probably hate me asking this question) just thought i throw it out there.

as far is getting this power to the ground...i'm going to save that for another thread. unless anyone has suggestions.
 

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if you narrowed it down to crower 402's, get the straight 402's not the 402A . Skunk2 stage 1's are like crower 403's due to their larger duration powerbandwise.

the 402's are a midrange powerband cam.

you would need to use a tapered flange and cut out the B-pipe bottleneck on any of the 60mm (2 3/8 in.) exhausts you listed, if you use the DC JDM 4-1/Carsound 2.5 in. cat. Why aren't you considering the SMSP exhaust kit for the same money? If you are stuck then look at the Type one stainless exhaust...no bottleneck, not 2.5 in. but a little bigger than 60mm, and comes with a silencer option.



you will need cam gears and a VTEC controller to tune the cams. If you aren't going any bigger on the headporting or CR, stock injectors will be plenty.

I would add the Skunk2 IM to your wish list BTW.
 

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BTW I have a DPR ported at their stage V GSR 2 stage IM flow matched for Toda A's siting on my shelf collecting dust, if anyone is interested. No sensors. It was done by Joe Alaniz when he was working at DPR in late 90's. Joe is all motor record holder Erick Aguilar's headporter these days.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
but MD, the straight 402 has a lopier idle. would this still be ok on the street? i mean i can always tune it to idle better right? also they require a valvespring upgrade and the 402a's dont. well i definitely won't be using the tanabe w/this setup. type one, eh? what's the piping diameter? or is there a thread on it already? like i stated, i really like an n1 style muffler w/at lease 2.5" inlet. i was at optauto.com and they have a blitz w/70mm inlet, HKS w/75mm inlet, and a 5zigen w/2.5" inlet. also STR makes one w/2.5" inlet tapered to 3" and the core inside the muffler is 3". what do u think of these choices MD?

yeah i thought of the gears and vafc already. stock injectors? what bout the prelude injectors as soulchild mentioned?

as for the skunk IM, i was afraid i may lose a little low and mid-range. i wanted to keep the gsr IM to prevent that. or should i not worry about that. i mean i'm willing to sacrifice low-end for mid to upper range gain as long as the low-end isn't less than stock. i hope you understood that sentence.

edit: ok i just found out at ipsracing.com that the type one is 63mm. so then it's just a little under 2.5" at 2.48", but it is pricey at $375 for the rear section. or should i just get the whole system? would i be choking off my exhaust or is the difference small enough not to affect it?
 

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How do the 402A's not require a valvespring upgrade? 11.8mm lift on both sides is huge compared to stock GS-R lift specs.

Dave at SMSP did take a close look at the Type one exhaust. It is a 2.5" OD system however he said there are still some bottlenecks to be removed. It looks from your post though all you are looking for is a muffler? Are you getting custom 2.5" tubing done?

If you tune those cams properly you shouldn't lose power compared to stock.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
well crower's site states that they don't require it unless you increase your rev limit. but i trust your knowledge. so then it'll be the skunk stage 1's then. these definitely don't need upgrade right? asking just to make sure. so where are the bottlenecks at? what about the 5zigen and str mufflers i mentioned? yes i'll find a local muffler shop to get 2.5" mandrel piping done.

edit: ok that's on the b-pipe right? is there a bottleneck on the rear muffler part, though?
 

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no, there is only one bottleneck where surferX stated.

i believe when crower says you dont have to upgrade your valvesprings...they mean it for type Rs. skunk2 says no valvesprings need to be upgraded but that is with type R springs. and yes, skunk2 stage 1s require upgraded valvesprings. MD always says to get ITR intake valvesprings and move your stock intake valvesprings to your exhaust side. maybe nitride coat your retainers for added stiffness too. that should be good for skunk2 stage 1s and crowers.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
will that IM he's selling be worth it? how much you want for it anyway MD? he said it's portmatched to toda a's. are those similar to skunk 1's? it would be a bolt-on in my case right?

so where can i get the itr valvesprings for a good price? and how much would the nitride coating run me? and where do i get that done?

btw, what mods do you have on your car soulchild?
 

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Stage I ($712.50/pr)
INTAKE lift- 11.58 mm, duration 252 @ 1mm
EXHAUST lift - 10.9 mm, duration 249 @1mm


Toda A's ($920/pr)

INTAKE lift - 11.6 mm,duration - 250 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 11.2mm, duration - 240 @1mm


these two cams are very similar...so MD's IM would be perfect. MD probably ported the IM to the cam's profile to get maximum power out of them. yes, it would be bolt-on.

you can get ITR intake valvesprings at www.acuraautomotivesports.net for 80 bucks.

i dont know how much nitride coating costs. sorry

and i only have i/h/c/e...no 220+whp monster! hah. i wish. hope that helps
 

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Discussion Starter #14
ok thanks soul. for sure then i'll get the skunk 1's and the itr valvesprings. what about the TB. should i get a bigger one? or bore it? or is stock one suffice? does anyone know what site has a good price on the dc 4-1 jdm header? nope.com has it for $384.95 for the ss one, but it says it's for the type-r. will it fit on my gsr?
 

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The header will bolt to the head but down below it will be too long. Since you are getting a custom exhaust done though have them put on the DC JDM header so they can make a cat/exhaust setup that is the correct length. Are you getting a larger cat from the exhaust shop or from SMSP?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
surferx, i want to get a carsound model. which model do i need and do i need flanges welded on? i'm thinking of getting one on ebay and if needed have the shop weld on flanges. is this a good route?
 

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Yes you need flanges. Universal cats just have blank ends. If you don't get it from SMSP get a 2.5" ID inlet/outlet with two O2 bungs. You actually only need one O2 bung since the Type R header has a bung at the collector though. I'd just recommend the extra bung for tuning with a dyno shop's wideband O2 sensor.

The shop may or may not have the proper flanges for the cat. The muffler shop I went to had to hack my DC JDM header because they didn't have the right flange for the cat. So I'd check them out, SMSP is the safest bet as you'll get what you need and not have to worry about the muffler shop "improvising" to try and connect the header to the cat.
 

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i have 403's and as long as your car is running well and carbon free you won't have any problem idleing.mine is a very steady idle with a nice lope. they recommend the spring,retainer kit but it isn't needed. i have had no prob. with mine and adkust valve every other oil change for peice of mind. if you do this mod i suggest changing the belt and getting cam gears and do it all in one shot. also with gears you can tune the cams. advancing the intke gives you good mid/low but takes a little off top but retarding the exh. gives you top end but you lose idle quality due to the duration change. both work in vice versa also.if you have a tough time idleing you can go a degree advanced on the exh. cam and it'll purr but top end will suffer. its a seesaw but as for bolt ons i noticed my biggest gain with the cams and gears over all other mods. my gears are at 3adv int. and 2 ret. exh. when runnin. usaualyy i go 2 adv. int and 1ret. @ town. either way good luck you will enjoy.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
ok surfer, i'll just contact dave and get a cat from him then. less hassle and more convenient since he maybe more familiar with it than my muffler shop. having that extra bunge on the cat doesn't affect flow, eh? i've alway been curious, would exhuast leak through the bunges? also my car is obd2. you think my shop will be afraid to mess with the cat install? so MD, where u at? how much for the IM? and what size TB do i need for it? thanks.
 
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