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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
UPDATE AT BOTTOM



Hey guys, I have a few questions concerning my brakes. Recently I installed my new brake pads since my old ones were going bad. I installed Porterfield R4-S pads just in case you're wondering. It seems like we (friends and I) did the install right, following the article provided by TI. We also bled the brakes to get any area out. That was done on Friday. Now to the questions:

1. The new brake pads squeak and I don't like that. I know they have some anti-squeal gel to put on them but I didn't think of that at the time since I was in a rush. How long will this go on for? Anyway to stop it with the pads on already or do I have to go in there and take them off and put the gel on?

2. The brakes don't seem as responsive before. Sometimes I have to push down quite far for them to start stopping the car. Any ideas on this? Should I flush the brake fluid and replace it maybe?

3. The last question is a sinking brake. Ever since the install I've been noticing that my brake pedal sinks a lot more. Again, any ideas? I would think it might be the master cylinder.


Well there are all my problems concerning my brakes. Not a big problem yet but don't want to make it one. Hope to get some good feed back...thanks in advance.
 

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I'm not that educated on those pads. Are they designed for a daily driven car? Or are they for track use? If track use, they may need to be warmed up to work effectivly.

The anti squeek greese needs to be put on the back of the pads, so yes you have to take them off. This may be a good idea because you may have installed the pads wrong to begin with. They may be upside down.

As for the sinking pedal, you may have not bled the brakes correctly. I don't know why you bled them for a pad change anyway. Do all 4 wheels.

If the fluid has not been flushed in a while now is a good time. It is possible that your mastercyl is bad as well. Check for leaks and such.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well I do know we did not install the brake pads the wrong way because they wouldn't have snapped in the way they did. Also, the Porterfield R4-S pads are said to be for street use.

As far as the greese, might be a job to do this weekend. I didn't think of it at the time because my girlfriend was on my mind...just wanted to get the job done.

I'm sure we bled the brakes properly because we followed the article on the site. The reason for bleeding the brakes was because we were not getting any pressure at all in the brakes after the install of the pads. We had air in the brake lines which needed to be taken out explaining why we bled the brakes.

The only reason I could think that might be causing the problem is the master cylinder. I'm going to look at past receipts to see whens the last time I flushed the brakes, if it's been awhile...I'll do this this weekend as well as the brake pad greese.
 

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Yea, if you bled your brake system properly, than you master cylinder has a leak. That would cause the pedal to slowly sink to the floor...

As for the squeeking, (assuming you installed them properly), you could use that gel grease or wait it out. A good tip for when changing your brakepads, shave off the top corners of the pads so the edge isnt completely sharp. This will eliminate the squeeking.

And response time, check the last time your calipers were replaced or rebuilt.. if not your caliper piston may need to be rebuilt, if you have access to a circular or ratchet saw, so u can sand off the outer are near the sides of the piston, faster and a lot cheaper than buying new calipers.

and.. yea

EDIT* just as a question, what did you use to depress your caliper piston when putting taking the pads off and on. Did you use some needle nose pliers or brake toolset?

>dima
 

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the sinking brake pedal is a symtom of improper bleeding. Also the porterfields need to be warmed up to a cetain extent. You might consider talk to MichaelDeleany. I know he has had expierence with porterfields
 

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If your rotors are old your pads are trying to wear to the grooves of the old rotors. Possible reason for the noise. Normaly you get the rotors re-sufaced and then put new pads on.
It doesn't take much air in the line to screw the brakes up.
It sounds to me like you let air into the system by trying to bleed them. If they were fine before I'm sure the master cyl didn't get a leak as a result of changeing pads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hey guys, well thought I might have fixed the problem of the sinking brake peddle but by the looks of it I didn't. I bought a new master brake cylinder and it was installed today. I had it checked out before buying the MC and I was told it was something wrong with it, so thats why I went ahead and replaced it. Running into problems already though.

The brake pedal doesn't seem to have as much pressure as before. Before the pedal would sink but now the peddle doesn't have the pressure I think it should. We bled the brakes twice, taking it for a spin each time after. After the first time it was horrible, the pedal was so loose and wouldn't respond at all sometimes (never made it to the end of the driveway). Second time, the pedal got a little more responsive but not nearly as good as I thought it would be, we were able to take it around the block this time though. We let it be after this, hoping that driving around would help it and coming home tonight, it stayed the same.

I have to push down the pedal at least 50% for it to start stopping me and hold it between 50-75% to keep me stopped at a light. I think towards the end there, not completely sure on this, but I felt the pedal start to sink again...I will make sure of this tomorrow during the day though. My solutions to the problem, tell me what you think:

1. It needs to be bled a few more times. How many times do you think I have to bleed it to get all the air out? First time our sequence was - RR, RL, FR, FL. Second time around we followed the article: RR, FR, RL, FL. I have a 95 LS.

2. Something is up with the brake lines. Going bad is all I can think of. If that is the case, SS brake lines for me.

3. Brake booster. Have no idea how to check this though. I think of it is when you press on the brakes, your RPMs will jump some, showing that the booster is still working. Am I wrong on this?


Well thats my problem as of now and very upsetting if the problem wasn't the MC in the first place. Could have spent that money elsewhere. Anyway, help me out guys, I have to get this fixed because daily driving is getting a bit scary now. Thanks

V

PS Sorry for the long post.
 

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Sounds like you need to bleed them, if you are not careful while bleeding you can actually suck air back into the system and make things worse. I thought that the bleeding order went RR, LF, LR, RF. When you are bleeding make sure you have good comunication with your partner, make sure you have the volve closed before your partner has the pedal to the floor. Seeing that you changed your master cylinder, you may have to do each caliper many times. Make sure you can get at least one whole pump of the pedal with no air comming out of the caliper before moving on to the next one. Hope this helps good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah I think we need to bleed them a few more times. Thats the order we did take the second time around, RR, LF, LR, RF. I just wrote it down different because it was 3 o'clock in the morning when I posted the update. Little out of it! Well any other input would be great. Thanks

V
 

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Just a note, but I've been told you can force the piston inside the MC to travel too far when bleeding brakes and blow the seal, I assume because there might be some sort of buildup or roughness beyond its normal travel that errodes the seal, from how it has been explained to me. I try to push the pedal only 50-75% of max travel when bleeding. Again, this may be BS, but I didn't want to find out.
 

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If that's the case you will have a leak there...is there a leak? Or wetness?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
No we didn't bleed the MC at all. The mechanic didnt tell me anything about that. Just told me to unhook the old one and put in the new one and there you go. I'll go check right now about the leaking.
 

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I asked because I looked through the Haynes manual for my car which is a G2, and the first thing it says under installation is "Bench bleed the new master cylinder before installing it." Then it goes into a description of how to do it.
 
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