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Discussion Starter #1
I'm in the process of building an LS sleeved block with built GSR head, pistons, rods etc for our track day play car. This is going to be a 9:1 turbo charged car with low 300whp+. Not a daily driver, good gas and wi. Do I need a block guard for this application? Another question is what is the HP/TQ reliability limit of the Type R transmission (not drag racing)?
 

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absolutely not. a completely stock block can handle 300-400whp no problem.

many people run the stock trans to over the 400 limit. as far as i know the block will be more likely to go than the trans/diff (of course slicks and track launches change that, but you said no drag)
 

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The Enforcer!
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Stock transmission will be fine, your far from hurting it

Block guard? Hell to the no! Bump that compression from 9.1 to 10.1
 

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You don't need a block guard with or without sleeves. Do some searches on them...there's some good prior threads.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all of the info. It is very helpful. The motor that is going into my car just came of of an integra that someone just built a few thousand miles ago and ran the car with the metal mesh screen over the turbo. So the engine was built properly, but the tuning was not right on and all the dirt that ran through the motor did not help the pistons or the cylinder walls. So the motor was already well put together with good components which some of them I will have to change (bore the block, pistons, rings, and bearings).

My engine builder has next to zero experience with 4 cylinder engines. Most of the stuff he builds is for race cars, high dollar and HP. He suggested that I look into block guards as he was not an expert nor has any experience or knowledge as far as what these motors need. Its great news that I can get away with saving some money and not having cooling issues.

As far as compression ration goes, the car I'm building will never see the street and will not be street legal by any means. So, for a daily driver, I would love to have a FI car with 10:1 just for better off boost performance and faster spool. So since this thing is going to the track only, I'm being a cheap ass and hoping to be able to stay away from race gas and maybe be able to get away with 91 and WI if the car is tuned conservative enough.
 

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a stock gsr is more than 10:1 and can be boosted over 300whp on pump
 

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The Enforcer!
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IF you want to play the number game I hit 460whp on 93 octane. The Dyno is just a tool how it's tuned is where it counts!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
a stock gsr is more than 10:1 and can be boosted over 300whp on pump

I'm sure it is not a big deal to run 10:1 with a good tune on a street car. A car that goes on road course has different demands, loads and heat issues then a street driven car. It is also better to have some safety margin and reliability as well. I wish it was that easy and cheap!
 

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I'm sure it is not a big deal to run 10:1 with a good tune on a street car. A car that goes on road course has different demands, loads and heat issues then a street driven car. It is also better to have some safety margin and reliability as well. I wish it was that easy and cheap!

ok. believe what you like. a 10:1 comp would be just fine if you have a tuner worth his paycheck, and if you dont you shouldnt build a track car. there is no reason to go 9:1 over 10:1. there are PLENTY of GSR and ITR track cars on boost. and theyre all above the 10:1 mark (because they are stock)

and it IS that easy and that cheap. your goals can be (and have been many many times before) met with a completely stock gsr+boost. done.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
ok. believe what you like. a 10:1 comp would be just fine if you have a tuner worth his paycheck, and if you dont you shouldnt build a track car. there is no reason to go 9:1 over 10:1. there are PLENTY of GSR and ITR track cars on boost. and theyre all above the 10:1 mark (because they are stock)

and it IS that easy and that cheap. your goals can be (and have been many many times before) met with a completely stock gsr+boost. done.

I'm not sure if you have ever had any experience with California 91 Octane. It is very different then what is sold in the rest of the country. Do you know what the extra 1 point of compression does in HP vs Knock Resistance and being able to keep more timing in the tune? The gain is negligible in a track car. So for something that will spool up 100 rpm sooner between 3,000 and 4k rpm does absolutely nothing for me on the car that will never see less then 5k rpm. That is what 1 point of compression will do. I will have to run much less timing, the EGT's go way up since the timing is going to be more retarded with higher compression and will have to dump more fuel to keep it running cooler. So no thanks on a time bomb. I'm sure that's what most paycheck tuners will do for you.
 

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Track is indeed a very different world than the street. Heat comes in large, uncontrollable quantities.

I saw another member post this and I was intrigued.. Check it out:

Cylinder Support Systems

It seems like a great option for you, being that you are not anywhere near its "HP limit" and it is well thought out.
 

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if your that concerned about heat then
install a oil cooler with a thermostat to open at 180
install a water + meth system to help with heat and detonation
there are other things out there, i just think you dont know about them. also your car be tuned with 91 octane. lately ive been seeing cars being tuned on 91 and make great power with it. for track use (road course) you dont need high hp i would imagine. i think a gt28rs would be perfect and you can get one that is oil and radiator cooled. i think with that engine temps can be more controlled because you can use a full core radiator as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
if your that concerned about heat then
install a oil cooler with a thermostat to open at 180
install a water + meth system to help with heat and detonation
there are other things out there, i just think you dont know about them. also your car be tuned with 91 octane. lately ive been seeing cars being tuned on 91 and make great power with it. for track use (road course) you dont need high hp i would imagine. i think a gt28rs would be perfect and you can get one that is oil and radiator cooled. i think with that engine temps can be more controlled because you can use a full core radiator as well.

Everything you are saying makes sence. I would not put an FI car on the track without WI and cooling upgrades. I think you may be right on the money as far as the turbo choice for my power goals. I was considering running a 3071 or T3 super 60 to go on the cheap side. For me, its not about the peak HP number, but more about being able to maintain as much HP you have at the beginning of a 20-30 minute session at 100+ deg outside all the way to the end. WI and Meth helps a ton, but as the cars intake temps go up, you have less air density (I'm using AEM) the car gets less fuel. As that happens the EGT's will go up. As the EGT's go up, the engine is likely to start detonating. If the ECU picks up knock, it further pulls timing in that RPM range and by doing so further increases the EGT's. The lower the initial compression ration the less likely the pinging will happen. So in the begging of the run you may start with 300HP and by the end of the 20 minute track outing you may be left with 220HP by the time the ECU is done pulling timing so the car doesn't blow up. I have tracked TC'd cars for over 10 years and have tuned them my myself with a few different stand alone ECU's so this is not coming from reading other peoples posts, but thousands of track miles and data logs.
 

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its funny you would call it a time bomb. i think you need a better tuner. for example, superchargers create more heat and leach power and are more prone to heat soak that your turbo. Yet morningz runs a supercharger gsr COMPLETELY STOCK on track. in fact he has multiple 20+ minute track videos. granted he does run meth, you could easily run a stock gsr w properly modded cooling and a turbo at the track. you are forgetting you can also run less psi per hp and be less taxing on the turbo. if you dont think your tuner can tune a 10:1 track car to run strong and safe, you need a better tuner. worrying about 10:1+turbo is outdated, tuning has come a long way since those days. you seem quite educated on the topic, im not trying to be an ass, i just think you are thinking that 10:1 comp is much higher that it really is when considering turbo.

in the end its your build, i just think getting 9:1 pistons is a bad choice, especially when you have a sleeved block crying for real power.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
its funny you would call it a time bomb. i think you need a better tuner. for example, superchargers create more heat and leach power and are more prone to heat soak that your turbo. Yet morningz runs a supercharger gsr COMPLETELY STOCK on track. in fact he has multiple 20+ minute track videos. granted he does run meth, you could easily run a stock gsr w properly modded cooling and a turbo at the track. you are forgetting you can also run less psi per hp and be less taxing on the turbo. if you dont think your tuner can tune a 10:1 track car to run strong and safe, you need a better tuner. worrying about 10:1+turbo is outdated, tuning has come a long way since those days. you seem quite educated on the topic, im not trying to be an ass, i just think you are thinking that 10:1 comp is much higher that it really is when considering turbo.

in the end its your build, i just think getting 9:1 pistons is a bad choice, especially when you have a sleeved block crying for real power.
You are very right about tuning the car at any PSI and I know I'm not coming close to the limits of the engine I'm building and working with. I can tune this car to be safe at 10:1, 11:1 or even higher. Basically what you do is keep pulling timing back until the car is knock free! The higher the compression the more timing you pull back. The end result is you eventually end up with diminishing returns at the track much sooner then street. Another thing you dont realize is our fuel in California 91 Octane is probably more knock prone then 86 around the country. We have a tons of additives in the fuel that make the car run like crap and ping like crazy. Basically imagine trying to tune your car on 86 where you live instead of 92. Im sure the car will be safe at 11:1 with the proper tune, but it will make less power after it heat soaks. Another thing I'm not willing to do is tune the car for track duty with WI. I have always tuned the tubo cars fairly aggressive, but not to the last few HP. Then the Water Injection comes in as your safety and reliability buffer. If you tune the car to run with WI, and there is a failure with the water pump, clogged spray jet or any other issues, you can blow up your engine in a heart beat. This car is being built for my wife just for track days, not racing but play days. When I bring my car to the track, I have to bring a 55 gallon drum of 116 octane and usually go through it in about 130+ or so miles. I would really like to keep the fuel bill down with the Acura.
 
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