Team Integra Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello, and thank you for reading.

I have searched for days to get down to the nitty gritty on a basic turbo build.

The magic triangle (reliable, cheap, fast) has lead me to 2 choices. Cheap, and Reliable.

THE GOODS:

2000 Acura Integra LS B18B
Apexi Neo safc
Stock B18B = bolt ons (I, H, E, AEM pulleys, clutch ACT street, flywheel ACT street, low temp thermostat 165’, solid mounts 75A)
T3/T4 .63 hot .50 cold (trim ?? 🤷‍♂️)
FMIC w/ 2.5 inch piping
Internal WG conversion (8 psi)

The turbo is NOT installed yet, nor the safc.

THE GOAL:

Reliable - This car will only be driven from May - October each year. Roughly 100 miles a week.

This car will see boost daily presumably entering the highway, or climbing the hills.

I want it reliable. Period.

Horsepower - 160 to the wheels. Sure, works for me...

More than what is has now, is more than it has now. Its not a race car. Its a nice car. Comfortable and fun to drive. A few more horses getting into hills wouldn’t be a bad thing.

PASS OBDii compliance. Period. No exceptions. This is why I am using Apexi neo and cannot tune it via OBDi aka Hondata, crom, uberdata, etc.

I understand the general detonation particulars when it comes to safc vs tuning. I do not want high boost. If I can get the WG down to 5 psi, I will. I just haven’t found any info regarding it yet, or any conversions with a lower setting.

These are my questions:

A. Will the piggyback throw an immediate code when installed because its OBDii? I am hopeful that the answer is “no” because of how it works.

B. The turbo spool... .63/.50, what am I looking at here? 1 psi around ~4000 rpm?

C. Can the internal WG be locked “open” so the turbo does not spool?

D. If I can lock it open, is it “safe” to drive normal? High revs and whatnot?

E. I have 410cc injectors... I would rather stay with the OEM, but should I swap?

I know OEM injector duty cylcles peak at 8.4 psi, but realistically, my goals are not driven by power.

I want a turbo mounted on the car. I don’t want a large hp gain... just some noise and a little umph for the hills if I push the rpms a little harder, but most of all, reliable.

Thanks for your time, any positive feedback, and any answers to my questions in advance.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
If you're looking for "cheap" you have a lot of parts mentioned for only 160whp. You can achieve that with bolt-ons (even a VTEC head) for waaaaay cheaper than the components.

Get rid of the "piggy-back" idea. If you're looking for reliability, then plan accordingly for a full tuning solution. You need to be able to adjust ignition timing, which a piggyback can't do, which is also a major characteristic in terms of tuning & reliability. Those piggybacks were old technology, and "band-aids" due to the fact that full tuning solutions were extremely expensive back in the day. Yes, you'll be throwing check engine lights, and the vehicle will be in constant limp-mode. You simply cannot boost an OBD2 ECU safely. Additionally, that code from the check engine light gets stored, until physically reset by disconnecting the battery, or via an OBD2 scanner. If you're wanting to pass OBD2 emissions, going boost will NOT do it. New Civics & such can get a way with it, since newer OBD2 ECU's are "flashable" and programmable. Our older ECU's cannot function this way. This is why boosted Integra's are OBD1.

Wastegates do not get "locked". The work off an internal spring rated towards a specific PSI. The exception to this is when a boost solenoid is added where the tuning platform controls boost. When cruising at low, mid, or highway speeds, the engine is at vacuum. Boost only occurs when throttle increases, that's it.

Again, you do not need forced induction to only achieve 160whp.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,688 Posts
Again, you do not need forced induction to only achieve 160whp.
Agreed, 160 whp can be done all motor very easily.

I'm in the same boat with needing to stay OBD2 for emissions purposes. I think the only other option would be to use a piggy back setup (obviously very very conservatively tuned) with your OBD2 ECU for inspection purposes ONLY and then run an OBD1 ECU with proper tuning mechanisms for the rest of the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Parts are already obtained, so there is no cost involved.

I have no desire to do a vtec head swap either, which would be costly, and I am in preference to non vtec.

I appreciate the notion of 160hp NA, but the point is I want the turbo installed, it only has to make 1 psi to make me happy. Power is not relevant is my point.

If I understood your comment regarding the internal waste gate, you are saying it is not adjustable? Clearly it stated 8-20psi on the sheet that came with the adapter. I was also “told” (hearsay) that an internal WG can be set to bypass the turbo... so if this is false information, I will rethink my setup.

OBDi is and will not be an option.

If boost is created at ~4K rpms then I will know what the car’s limitations are, and may have to consider a different driving style.

I want to do the hack vs illegal strictly for street use reasons, and OBDii compliance, NOT emissions testing.

I will happily replace the motor if I cook it.

The point of the thread is to answer questions that I have researched and cannot find answers to.

To completely redirect me around my goal was not what I was expecting, so unfortunately your suggestion(s) will be noted, but not used here.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
Nobody is attempting to redirect you. We're merely saying that a forced induction setup is over complicating the net result for your goals. You're adding a ton of equipment that interferes with a reliable and simplistic setup already, for a very, very small net result.

For example: You're looking for 1psi setup. Good luck finding a wastegate with that small of a spring. I've only seen springs that start at 5psi or so. You cannot make a wastegate exit exhaust gasses below a pre-specified spring. This issue along would be over-complicating things for a very small net return in power. Again - not logical.

You noted above that you have a FMIC above. Why? At 1psi, you're nowhere near any point of needing to decrease intake air temp. Again - not logical.

Lastly - my opinion input here. You say above that you research. You're spending too much time researching how to make these parts work for an every low power goal, instead of putting the time & effort into researching what it will take to yield 160whp to your already existing setup that's running on the car. You may be asking for assistance & help with what you don't know, and we're simply trying to educate just that. You're obviously dead-set on making this work, and no members here will give solid advice or feedback, as their goals and research have been towards a much higher goal in mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
😂

Ok, I am pretty sure this is being looked at all wrong.

...this is why I have been a member for 9 years and never posted.

Lets start over, and try to think outside the box.

I want a turbo on my car.

I do not care about power output after installation, so lets not put a number on it, whatever it ends up being it is.

Before we even talk about installing the turbo, I NEED to know if the Apexi NEO safc is going to trip a CEL, running a 2000 P75 on a stock B18B.

Can anyone answer this?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
😂

Ok, I am pretty sure this is being looked at all wrong.

...this is why I have been a member for 9 years and never posted.

Lets start over, and try to think outside the box.

I want a turbo on my car.

I do not care about power output after installation, so lets not put a number on it, whatever it ends up being it is.

Before we even talk about installing the turbo, I NEED to know if the Apexi NEO safc is going to trip a CEL, running a 2000 P75 on a stock B18B.

Can anyone answer this?
This was answered in my first reply. Yes it will. OBD2 will see an input outside the scope of normal and attempt to compensate resulting in a check engine light. I experienced this
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
So the computer does not go in closed loop at full throttle? ...I thought this was the same for OBDi and ii ecus.

EDIT:

I guess I will add this:

Lets say I leave the motor stock, I get Hondata S300, get it tuned... fast forward to a month before my inspection, at which point oem ecu goes back into the car. The car will need at least 50 if not 100 miles before the ecu will show “ready” status. That means driving the car without boost spooling.

Are you suggesting there is absolutely no way to make this happen?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
So the Mitsubishi guys know quite a bit.

-Yes you can lock the internal wastegate open by disconnecting the rod and wiring it open.

-Yes you could potentially boost in the upper rpm range with it open.

Surprisingly, they also were in strict belief that a t3 t4 .63 / .50 probably wont start spooling till ~4500 rpms due to the size of the exhaust housing.

@HT I met 2 guys that both ran Apexi Neo setups on their S2Ks. One was an 04 the other a bone stock 07.

They both said the Apexi was a great screen and easy to use, but are in agreement that its not the best tuning solution for any turbo application, which I have known since my original post. They did however both gain approximately 12 ft lbs of torque... They didn’t have the dyno sheets, but it makes sense that they retuned for their bolt ons.

So I will post as I move forward, just to show my results.

Still haven’t found an answer to my fuel injector question, but I was planning on running stock, so I will post those results as I know more...

The safc will be installed in the spring most likely seeing as how I have no time to do it before winter storage arrives.

I will use next summer as an experimental drive time to familiarize myself with the safc, then determine my next step regarding the turbo.

I was never in a rush to do this. I never had high expectations for the horsepower, I just want the car to run stock reliable while having a turbo mounted on it.

If you need to delete thread, go for it.

At the moment there is no real useful information in it.

Thanks for trying. :/

EDIT: I am also seeking a 5lbs setup so i can keep the boost down, since you mentioned they were out there jjkz24. 😊👍
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
106307
For those who want to run NA with a turbo installed, and have an external wastegate. Guess they can do it too.

Direct from Hondata tuning manual. 👍

Its worth the read.

Still not excited about changing ecus every year, and waiting for inspection.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
So again my situation is unique.

I had every intention to operate the safc myself, or Hondata if having to go that way.

I wanted the safc to tune with the use of a widebamd afr. I am being told that it cannot be installed and used without tripping a CEL per jjkz24.

which would mean, based on what he is saying, I will need to tune via obdi conversion (Hondata is first choice) and I will again tune myself.

even if I do successfully tune the car, I am still left with trying to set it up for less than 8 psi when i tune, and, having to revert back to my oem ecu for inspection, pull the wastegate rod, and tie open the gate.

unless, i successfully install the safc contrary to others experiences, and see for myself... in which case it works and i tune the hack, or it fails, i uninstall, and go back to obdi tune with obdii ecu for inspection with open gate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Again not trying to pass a smog / emissions test, just an OBDii ready status check through the diagnostic port.

The biggest issue with most of the emissions legal turbo kits is they will fit the b18b, but because the computer is designed for vtec models, will throw a CEL as a result of solenoid not being hooked up. I had contemplated the idea of buying a solenoid and tucking it somewhere, but thats seems like even more of a hack job the the safc hack idea...

Good links. Like the info! 👍
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I know how to do read the CEL from the service connector as well.

The obdii port must work here in order to pass inspection. No smog testing, just the obdii readiness status as “ready”, and no CEL on while running (or SRS or ABS for that matter.)

It must have a cat, resonator, and muffler because factory did (the visual pass,) but that does not mean i cannot change the manifold to a turbo setup.

The key is running the obdii, and not having fuel correction until boost, which is why I thought the safc was really the perfect get around.

The safc is suppose to correct the ecu’s inabilities (all while keeping the ecu happy.) <~ this is my biggest issue.

i just do not understand (im not a solder / electronics guy) what would be involved in an obdii chipset replacement with the turbo map on it. that would be a perfectly good waste of $500, to make this work. Cannot find jack on it though.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
3,938 Posts
I haven't been able to go through these posts since last week, so I haven't been able to provide much input, but.....

Just out of curiosity, what state are your emissions in? They sound similar to mine here in Central, PA. For me specifically though, I'm able to get around emissions because we have a law that if the vehicle is driven under 5K mileage per year, then you're exempt from emissions testing for that year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Vermont.

EDIT:

At 50 miles a week, even though we drive more than that, I would still have to be tested there in PA. 😂


But you have to do smog emissions right?

I guess we are fortunate in the sense that we don’t have to do that.

I have removed the abs system, and I remember that summer when he said I failed because the light “did not illuminate with the key in the ‘on’ position.” I was like really?

...needless to say, I found a 98 RS cluster, swapped the odometer over, and viola, no more abs light to light up.

went back to the same guy. He asked if i fixed the light, I said no. I replied, I found a cluster with no light, since I do not have abs. He popped the hood, checked all 4 brakes out... said 🤷‍♂️ Ill go write up a sticker. 😁👍

kinda want to keep everything as legit as it can be.

i don’t tend to travel out of state with the car much, but i really want to avoid other states police, for things that i can prevent...

my exhaust is quiet. Only the back windows are tinted (legal in VT, I understand this is different from state to state.) I try not to draw too much attention if possible. ...my civic gets too much attention just for being a lowered civic... 😂
106316
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top