Team Integra Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I’ve got a ‘99 LS stock B18b that I’m freshening up with new seals/gaskets and changing timing belt on. I pulled valve cover off and top piece of timing cover off to see the alignment marks on the cam gears, and also pay attention to the position of the distributor rotor button for TDC. Got the gears lined up and the rotor in the right position, but the timing marks on my crank pulley are extremely off.

for example, let’s say the timing marks on the timing cover is at 12 o’clock, my TDC mark on the pulley issomewhere between 2-3 o’clock.

So I marked on the pulley with white-out where the TDC alignment arrow is, so if nothing else I can at least put the new belt on exactly in the same position bc the car had been running perfectly fine before. Old timing belt is off, and now I see the the crank gear mark also is way off from the mark on the oil pump.

Say if the oil pump Mark is 11 o’clock the crank gear is somewhere around 7-8 o’clock position.

what the hell am I missing here? Starting to think there are some mixed up pieces from other engines here but I don’t know. for now I’m just going to follow my marks I made to match what the settings were before I pulled the old belt off. But now I’m nervous. I’ve got the motor out of the car and wanting to get it back together and in by end of the weekend.

please help me understand why this is and/or what I should do.

thanks in advance!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
1. With spark plugs removed, timing belt removed, stick a screw drive (or check tool) long enough down cylinder 1. Rotate the engine COUNTER CLOCKWISE until you reach CYLINDER 1 TDC (on upward compression stroke). Verify crank timing sprocket matches TDC on the oil pump housing. If you have no mark on the oil pump housing, make one. YOU MUST make sure you're at compression stroke, CYLINDER 1, before making your own mark. Doing this incorrectly will result in ENGINE FAILURE.

2. Using a wrench or a ratchet, rotate both intake and exhaust cams to TDC (- UP -). They will not stay there but will rest close. If you feel a hard bind while rotating them to TDC (-UP-), STOP, do not force it. The valve could be hitting a piston. If you can not go in one direction safely A: try the other direction or B. spin crank to allow room. Once you're cams are in place, reset the crank afterward.

3. Install timing belt with tensioner loose (make sure you have the most amount of belt tension on the intake side of the timing belt), verify gears say up, verify crank is still locked in with pump timing mark, re-tension the tensioner. Rotate the engine to CYL 1 TDC COMPRESSION stroke again and if everything was done properly you should be just fine.

- Joel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I’m aware the engine is to be spun in the counterclockwise direction. here’s where the crank gear was set when I aligned the cam gears and used a couple of screwdrivers to lock them in the UP position before I took the old belt off. If this is how the timing was set before I removed the belt, how on earth was this thing running? And running well I might add?
Thanks for the reply! I wish I had seen it sooner while I was still working in the shop. Turned out the timing belt I ordered wasn’t correct. I was given a timing belt for a CRV and it’s apparently shorter bc it wouldn’t fit.
I’ll Give it another go when I get back to the shop later this week.
105208
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
Most welcome.

An LS an B20 TB are the same. You may have to ID your water pump. 22 teeth mean Vtec pump, in which you'll need a vtec belt; yes a vtec belt. 19 teeth are non vtec pumps, in which you will use the non v belt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks again for the helpful information. I will be back in the shop tonight and verify the teeth on the water pump. If it’s confirmed to be a VTEC pump then I reckon I will have to swap my belt out for a GSR belt. I’ll report back tonight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
19 teeth on the water pump. New timing belt has same amount of teeth (126) as the one I took off. But it is NOT going on. Even with tensioner completely loose it’s not. Getting agitated now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I think it’s the tensioner. Appears to be a SLIGHT difference in the gap from the old one to my new one from the top of the slot to the outer edge of the bearing. I’ll mess with it later to see for sure though. Gotta get back to work lol.
105225

105226
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
Very awkward indeed. Machining error? Your TB should have 125T for LS/b20 and 126 for GSR. At this point I'd upgrade the water pump to a VTEC 22T, you already have the belt and the pump is more efficient.

keep us in the loop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
The issue is printed right on the tensioner. "DNJ". They make ****ty parts. I used their valve stem seals once in a pinch. And it bit me in the ass. They basically disintegrated in 12 months. Stay away from DNJ. They do not make quality aftermarket parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
105247

I've marked on your picture where your timing marks are. They should be aligned (RED). Is it just the angle of the picture or is you crankshaft keyway sheared off a little (GREEN)? If it is, you might want to fix now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Oh, Damn. I just zoomed in on the pic. Your crank gear and key are effed. I would pull them both off. Get a new crank gear key from honda, and make sure the actual key way on the crankshaft is still good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
The key way for the gear was never a part of the gear. It was locked in place with a single key through the slot of both the pulley and gear. The angle is bad in the photo. I was curious too, especially after I pulled the gear off, that there wasn’t a tab on the inside of the gear to slide into the slot on the crank. (Like my Celica) But I’m certain there never was one.

Far as the marks go, I’m aware now I need to line them up, I’ve simply not had the time to correctly position it at TDC. Hoping to get back to it tomorrow.

DNJ parts I’ve used in the past and not had too many issues with, short term. The DNJ was the tensioner I pulled off the motor, the GMB (Green) is the one that appears to be the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
105257

105258


So I’ve gotten TDC and the crank gear lined up with the oil pump and the cams lined up on the line, timing belt back on, with the old tensioner. New tensioner slot clearly wasn’t cut correctly. Old tensioner seemed smooth and in good condition anyway.


But now the crank pulley timing marks aren’t aligning with timing cover. The key way notch is at 12 o’clock and the TDC Mark is somewhere around 7-8 o’clock. Wrong pulley? Don’t have one to compare to to know for sure. But now I’m curious how to set ignition timing once it’s back in the car. I can make a mark at TDC but the”red” Mark is supposed to be the mark for ignition, correct?
Any advice here would be appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Sometimes the mark on the oil pump or the crank gear is incorrect. When I'm doing a timing belt on a non-vtec b series, I line up the crank with the single line on the harmonic balancer and mark on the bottom plastic timing cover. You can verify this is top dead center down the spark plug tube. With the mark on the timing cover & the single line on the harmonic balancer at 12 o'clock, you will be exactly tdc.

If you are familiar with the youtube channel "garagebuilthondas", Jon has a video showing this method on a b20 in his Gen1 CR-V.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Also, if you are obd2, you only set base timing. But if you are obd1, the crank has to be lined up with that single line for tdc. Then grab a timing light. And set it Like that. There are many videos explaining this on YouTube.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Sometimes the mark on the oil pump or the crank gear is incorrect. When I'm doing a timing belt on a non-vtec b series, I line up the crank with the single line on the harmonic balancer and mark on the bottom plastic timing cover. You can verify this is top dead center down the spark plug tube. With the mark on the timing cover & the single line on the harmonic balancer at 12 o'clock, you will be exactly tdc.

If you are familiar with the youtube channel "garagebuilthondas", Jon has a video showing this method on a b20 in his Gen1 CR-V.
I used the method JDMJNKY listed above to get TDC on #1 and the alignment on the crank GEAR matched the mark on the pump housing. Got the camshaft marks aligned and got the belt on (finally) and tensioner and spun it a few revolutions and everything seemed fine and still aligned. I’m just curious about the odds of the crank pulley being different, and how to go about setting the ignition timing when it’s that time. My pulley doesn’t have any “colored” marks on it but a single tiny notch for TDC and the three other notches, which I know am supposed to set ignition timing to the center of the 3.

So I’m thinking the pulley is off a different year model bc when I was trying to align TDC mark from pulley with the timing cover before I removed the pulley bolt, the distributor rotor never stopped on cylinder 1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
All B series crank pulleys are identical. B16, B17, B18A/B and b18C. Except for the B20B/Z. It is a larger diameter. But the timing marks are the same.

The single mark on the crank pulley must line up with the mark on the lower plastic timing cover. Or your timing will be off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
All B series crank pulleys are identical. B16, B17, B18A/B and b18C. Except for the B20B/Z. It is a larger diameter. But the timing marks are the same.

The single mark on the crank pulley must line up with the mark on the lower plastic timing cover. Or your timing will be off.
By doing that though I am not at TDC. The #1 cylinder is on a downward stroke.

The crank gear Mark is consistent with TDC, confirmed with a long screwdriver in the plug hole on cylinder 1.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top