[nospeedlimit143]

Here's my dillema. I have a 95 GSR. My friend has a '00 Civic Si. He just got his head built up with Skunk 2 cams, retainers, valves, ported, polished, etc. He also has a JGEdelbrock Intake manifold and a BBK Throttle Body (both of which were designed for a B18C). He wants to sell his car, so I was wondering if it is possible, and/or worthwhile to swap heads. My original plans were to wait a little while and do the CRVTEC Turbo swap (B16 head on a B20 block) but I don't know if I should pass this opportunity up. I still want to go FI in the future, and think this might be a good start.

I found these threads regarding this, but they didn't completely answer my question:
post 1

another post

Ideally, I would just be swapping the top half of both engines. The only downside I can see to this is that he will have a B18C head that is designed for higher compression. Will this make his engine run significantly less efficient than a stock B16? And what would be the downside to having a built B16 head on my B18?

Would I be better off just getting his intake manifold and throttle body and get new cams for my B18 and not even swap the entire head?

I know this is a lot to ask, so if anyone has done this or has extensive experiance and knowledge of this subject (ahem... mike d.) i'd appreciate your input.

Thanks

 

[JDIAZ]

I think in the first reference u give MIKE states that "just remember that the b16a is a different motor with different needs than a teg motor. It's gutless below 6000 rpm and needs flow velocity mods to gain back power below 6000 rpm. So the IM is small to get more flow velocity and is sized for a 1.6L. you don't just willy nilly trade parts. the b16a head is a very good head but it should be ported for the teg's rod ratio...it's port volumes are too small for a 1.8L 1.5-ish r/s engine...even an LS/VTEC engine."

 

[nospeedlimit143]

So the IM is small to get more flow velocity and is sized for a 1.6L. you don't just willy nilly trade parts.

he has a JGEdelbrock IM and a BBK TB that were intended for a B18C... I know these will work, i'm more concerned about whether or not the ported and polished head with stage 2 cams will be worth putting on my car.

 

[DefiantGSR]

if u get the head..it will flow better than the gsr head. the b16 head flows 5.25% better than the gsr head. i believe skunk2 cams are the same for all applications..as in the b16 skunk2 isn't any different from a b18 skunk2. i dont know about the throttle body or IM though. there is a guy here, his username is viprtwo..he used to have a ITR head(same as b16a head but ported a little) on his gsr block..you might want to PM him and ask him about it.

 

[DefiantGSR]

i believe that quote by MD is for the stock b16 intake manifold..not the head itself. the b16 head flows better than the gsr..but the IM is too small. maybe you can call JG and ask them if the b16 IM has smaller plenums and longer intake ports than its gsr counterpart

 

[MichaelDelaney]

http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/techarticles.html

the b16a head stock is a very good head even on a B18 IF YOU HAVE STOCK PARTS. However, you need to port it if you add aftermarket parts, especially on a 1.8L with a lower rod ratio than the 1.6L high rod ratio b16a and if you upgrade the cams.

If you port a GSR head though you can get it to flow better than the stock b16a head.

http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/marcharticle.html

So if we are talking about swapping onto a 1.8L low rod ratio teg, either way, you will have to port the head. So it's your choice: pay for a b16a head and port it OR just port your GSR head...you tell me which is cheaper...

 

[Fentoozler45]

If you port a GSR head though you can get it to flow better than the b16a head.

http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/marcharticle.html

Am I missing something..... That March Tech article showed the B-16 head killing the GS-R head by 4-5cfm from .400 lift to .500 lift. Unless the porting job done to the GS-R head was crappy, but I have trouble imagining that.

 

[MichaelDelaney]

no. you got it right.

the reason the ITR uses the ported b16a head is because of the difference in the upper rpm and high lift flow numbers compared to the straight shot b18c1 head.

my point was that if you pay for porting and a b16a head (which you would need to do for sure if you slap one on a 1.8L) , the cost of just porting a gsr head (which you already have) would basically get you in the ballpark forward flow-wise of the ported b16a head and definitely better than a stock b16a head. The cost of just porting the gsr head is more bang for the limited buck...getting a stock b16a head and not porting it would not be as good on a 1.8L low rod ratio LS VTEC setup.

The superiority of the b16a head also assumes that your cams lift to 0.5 in. (or 12 mm) which the Skunk2 stage 1's don't. If the cams are Skunk2 stage 2's then, you have a reason for looking at the added cost of a ported b16a head.

Last point: remember that flowbench numbers only represent forward flow capacity for "dry" air (no fuel added)at a specific vacuum. it doesn't give you an idea of the port job as it relates to reversion or backwards flow and it says nothing about "wet" air flow (fuel added as a mist to the air) and flow quality.


You have to make your decision with the cam specs you are using and the redline you are using in mind. You can't take these numbers raw and make blanket statements for all cams and all redlines. You have to decide if the difference in the forward flow numbers justifies buying another head and then porting versus just porting the head you have.

Things are not as simplistic as people make them out to be.

 

[Fentoozler45]

I was thinking about b16 head with Toda B's (12mm lift if I remember correctly) and a 9,000 redline (+/-). This is all assuming correct engine package is used (12.3:1 cr pistons, Toda valve train, etc.).

I am less concerned about final cost as I am doing it right and getting the best for my money.

 

[MichaelDelaney]

when you make your decision, it's always good to know the details (specs) and the package you have. It makes no sense to just look at one aspect or part of an entire package and make your decisions based on that one part's performance in isolation.

the thing is , most beginners don't have the wherewithall to know about the "package" issues. They can only understand one part and how it works on it's own. Their lack of experience cannot tell them what part affects the performance of another part OR the performance of the engine package as a whole. The manufacturers prey on this ignorance when they advertise: whether it be cam specs, head flow numbers, ignition wire power gains, TB gains, IM power gains, exhaust power gains....

hopefully by reading the articles here, some of you now realize this and incorporate it in every decision you make regarding choices.

I hammer this point ad infinitum because it IS what separates this site and the advice given out compared to the other sites...gee look at this JDM blah blah blah part! it makes this performance number...hopefully now, the TI members will take a step back and not get hooked by the bait without thinking out loud: "is this the right design for my package and where I want my powerband to be before I buy the hype?".

 

[nospeedlimit143]

Thanks for your're input MD and everyone else. I'll definitely take it into consideration and do some more homework before making any decisions.