Team Integra Forums banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering if G3 Integras used hydraulic lifters. Searches for "hydraulic lifters" and "lifters" produced no result. The articles, although helpful in showing the specs of all the cars, does not show whether the lifters are hydraulic or not. I'm wondering if they're mechanical or oil-pressure driven hydraulic lifters ?

If they are selectively hydraulic, what trim levels have it?

The car in question is a 1997 Integra LS [automatic]

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Well, if that's true, then that saved me a lot of trouble. My valves are slightly clicking so I was thinking that either I needed to do a valve lash adjustment or I needed to clean the lifters (oil additive). I guess if TegRacer is right, then that's awesome. Anyone else have input?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,955 Posts
Honda doesn't use hydraulic cams they are solid cams so no there aren't hydrolic lifters cams are directly on the valves so yes if there is a ticking then a valve lash adjuustment would be in order if you are using stock injectors then we are know to have noisy injectors as well.

Later,
Jared
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,059 Posts
90_integraLS on Feb/02/04 said:
Honda doesn't use hydrolic cams they are solid cams so no there aren't hydrolic lifters cams are directly on the valves so yes if there is a ticking then a valve lash adjuustment would be in order if you are using stock injectors then we are know to have noisy injectors as well and a search would have resolved all your answers on this so make sure and do that in the future. I'm actually really suprised this post hasn't been deleted.
Later,
Jare
The cams are not directly on the valves, we still have rocker arms. The "lifter" is not so much a lifter as it is a pivot point on non-vtec engines and the attachement point between the rocker arm and valve stem in vtec heads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
"We do not have hydraulic valve lifters, thus our engines require periodic lash adjustments, this goes for all integras."

Thank you.
Well, although those links were helpful at valve lash adjustments (I knew how to find those), my question was on the lifters. The lifters were the things that I could not find information on. Well, thanks for your information, and I did read the valve lash adjustment article before, and I definately will be referring to that when I do my adjustments.

Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Hmmm, sounds good.
Thanks a lot for all your help.

So is this something that a novice can do?

Here's what I've done on my car and other people's cars so far, to give you an idea of my level of knowledge:
Brake pads / rotors
Brake shoes / drums
Coolant backflush
Oil change / filter change
Distributor cap / rotor
ATF flush
Timing adjustments

Basically stuff like that, nothing major. I'm rebuilding an engine in autoshop, but I haven't done any valve adjustments yet (the 350 is in pieces right now).

What do you think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Ah, no worries about the rocker arm deal, but I don't see why you thought this thread should have been deleted, as the question couldn't have been solved by a search.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
919 Posts
Valve lash adjustments are easy as long as you don't intimidate yourself with it.

However, if you doubt your competency at all I'd suggest not doing it yourself because if you DO screw something up it can be very costly to fix. I don't see why you'd have any trouble considering the type of work you've already done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,217 Posts
Ken_Masters on Dec/29/03 said:
I know it is getting off-topic but ah hell...Tuan (MD) pointed me in the right direction on hydraulic valvetrains (which our cars do not have, but I personally had never heard of them before) so here is some interesting information on the subject....

Quote: Originally posted by Mike Kojima at se-r.net
Most modern sport compacts are of the Dual OverHead Cam or DOHC design, where there is a separate cam for both the intake and exhaust valves. For high performance use, the DOHC design is preferable because it can use a more compact, simpler valve train. The compact drivetrain weighs less, having less mass, a big advantage particularly at high engine rpm. We will explain why in the next paragraph. The Honda/Acura B series motors, the Nissan SR20DE and the Mitsubishi 4G63 are examples of DOHC engines. Since most of the better sport compact engines are DOHC we will talk mainly about these types of valve trains.

The smaller the moving parts the less reciprocating mass the valvetrain will have. This allows for lighter valve springs, which will have smaller loads on the moving parts, less wear and less friction. Less friction means more power. Less mass also means that the valvetrain can support higher rpms for a given valve spring tension. one of the problems of a valvetrain at high rpms is valve float. This is when the inertia of the valvetrain overcomes the spring tension which is trying to keep the valves and the cam followers following the contour of the cam. When this happens the engine will misfire and the pistons can even hit the valves causing serious damage. When the valvetrain is bouncing out of control, the whole valvetrain is also put under severe stress and wear. Multiple failures of expensive valvetrain parts can result. In fact, valve float and valvetrain stability is usually the main limit to the redline or maximum safe rpm limit of an engine. Often when hopping up a motor for the higher RPM's that a racing cam can encourage, you must put stiffer valve springs in to prevent valve float.

Usually the fulcrum of the rocker arm has an oil-pressurized cylinder with a floating piston that the rocker pivots on called a hydraulic lash adjuster or HLA for short. The HLA's job is to take up any extra play in the valvetrain. As a valvetrain wears, usually the clearances in the valvetrain close up as the valves wear into the seats in the head. If the clearances close all the way, the valve does not seal and the engine loses power. After a while the hot exhaust gas flowing by the valve burns it out causing the engine to lose compression. In an engine with HLA's, if the clearances close up, the HLA simply collapses more, keeping everything sealing. If the clearances open more, the HLA's pump up and extend to maintain the proper clearance. Engines that have HLA's are called Hydraulic valvetrains. The Nissan SR20DE and VG30DE are good examples of hydraulic valvetrains.

Some engines do not have HLA's in their valve trains. They use a mechanically adjustable fulcrum that is usually threaded with a locking setscrew or fixed variable size shims. These are called mechanical valvetrains. When the clearances of the mechanical valvetrain changes due to wear or other factors, the valvetrain's clearances must be manually adjusted by a mechanic, usually periodically during a tune-up. The Honda/Acura B18C motor, the Toyota 4AG and the Nissan KA24DE and VQ30DE are all good examples of mechanical valvetrains.

A major disadvantage to hydraulic valvetrains is that if the engine is revved past the normal redline, ether by accident or by modifying the engine for much higher revs, there is a possibility that the HLA's can pump up, keeping the valves from closing all the way and causing misfires. Although this is common on old-school domestic engines at around 6000 rpm or less, most modern import hydraulic valvetrain engines can still rev pretty high. A typical import hydraulic valvetrain is usually good for at least 7500 plus rpm. Because of the HLA pump up problem, most true, ultra high revving racing engines have mechanical valvetrains. Some engines like the Nissan SR20DE have aftermarket conversion kits available for them so the valvetrain can be made mechanical in highly modified condition.

It is very important to remember not to mix up camshafts between hydraulic and mechanical valvetrains. Some popular import engines like the Nissan SR20DE are made with both hydraulic and mechanical valvetrains depending on what model of the engine you have. In the case of the SR20DE, a few select Japanese versions of the motor came with mechanical valvetrains stock. Some engines have hydraulic valvetrains but have aftermarket "lash killer" kits available to switch them to mechanical operation. If you put a mechanical cam in a hydraulic motor or vise versa, poor running at idle and severe valvetrain wear will result. This is because the initial part of the cams lobe, where the valve is first opening is shaped very differently between mechanical and hydraulic cams. Running the wrong sort of cam in the wrong type of valvetrain will cause the cam follower to dig in, causing damage instead of slide, as the valve is first opening, in the case of a hydraulic cam in a mechanical valvetrain. Conversely, the valves will stay slightly open for an additional 10-20 degrees giving a poor idle in the case of a mechanical cam in a hydraulic valvetrain.

Some DOHC engines have the cam working directly on the Valve with no Rocker arms, cam followers or anything. The lobe of the cam presses directly on a circular puck called a bucket. The bucket usually contains a shim that is available in different thicknesses in small increments that sets the valve lash or clearance and pushes directly on the valve. Direct action valve trains have the lowest mass of all, a good feature for high rpm use. The Toyota 4AG, many motorcycle engines and the Nissan KA24DE are examples of a direct acting valve train. Just about all purpose built racing engines like the Cosworth HD Indy engine and all Formula one motors have direct action mechanical valve trains because their low reciprocating mass is important to those 14,000-17,000 rpm spinning motors. A disadvantage of direct acting valvetrains is that it is hard to have a hydraulic lash adjuster incorporated into the design due to the compact nature of the valve train. The Nissan VG30DE is one of the only direct valvetrains that have hydraulic lash adjusters. Thus on most of these valvetrains, valve clearances must be periodically set by adjusting the thickness of the valve adjusting shim. This is a major pain although thankfully, it does not have to be done too often.

SOHC or Single OverHead Cam valvetrains have a single, centrally located camshaft connected to the valves with longer rocker arms. The added mass of the longer rockers can reduce the rpm that the valvetrain can reach before float. To counter the mass a stiffer valvespring with more resulting friction and wear can be used. The Honda Civic D15 and D16 as well as the Nissan VG30E motors are good examples of popular SOHC designs. A SOHC is still better than OHV or overhead valve, valvetrains like those found in domestic V-8's. These archaic pieces have a single cam deep within the engine block with long pushrods to connect the cams lobes to the rocker arms. These valvetrains have a lot of flex and inaccuracy in them in addition to a lot of weight. This limits them to low RPM's and heavy valve springs. Even highly modified domestic engines like the ones used in NASCAR, Top Fuel Dragging and Trans-Am are usually limited to about 9500 rpm even it the most radical form of modification. In contrast, the direct acting, shim-in-bucket DOHC valvetrains in Formula one racers routinely hit 17,000 rpm!

So as a short recap, DOHC valvetrains are the best for high RPM use, SOHC are next best with Overhead Valve being the old school throwback.


Now you know




Quote: MichaelDelaney on Dec/29/03
Yes.

Nissans use hydraulic valve lash adjusters.

We don't.

We have mechanical ones that need to be manually adjusted.

I guess everyone is on the same page now with the correct facts. No harm. No foul.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top