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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently installed h&r sport springs on my 95 rs. I also recently purchased the ST sway bar kit (PITA i might add). My question being, is the 24mm front sway going to overpower the 276 spring rate of my h&r's? Please don't tell me not to swap the front. I have read about it and that is not my question.
 

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what do you mean overpower? it just multiply up your front spring rate when you do hard cornering...

allb18b on Apr/05/04 said:
dont bother upgrading the front unless u want understeer,get the itr rear swaybar/bsq mounting kit and your set
You get better steering respond by upgrading the front too tho, just make sure you boost the rear sway or rear spring rate to counter the understeering you get from the bigger front sway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
allb18b on Apr/05/04 said:
dont bother upgrading the front unless u want understeer,get the itr rear swaybar/bsq mounting kit and your set
I'm aware of that school of thought. Thank you for replying but I specified that that is not the question I am asking.
 

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allb18b on Apr/05/04 said:
dont bother upgrading the front unless u want understeer,get the itr rear swaybar/bsq mounting kit and your set
He said not to bother saying this??????
 

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Codenamezero has got it.

There is more to a swaybar than just increase front = understeer, increase rear = oversteer.

Your springs and sway bars work together as one functioning suspension package.

If you have very soft springs up front (in relation to the back), and have more rotation than you would like. Increasing the front sway bar is a good idea. Because not only does it adjust slip angle and yaw, it takes out more body roll. That way less weight is transferred and your tires are no longer overloading.

Or you could upgrade them both equally. Most people go 22 rear / 24 front (ITR setup). Going 24 rear / 26 front would keep the same oversteer/understeer tendencies, but remove more body roll.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks jojo, I am actually a regular reader of that article as I just recently picked up my kit. But I have also read that if your spring rates dont compliment your torsion bar specs, you can have too much wieght transeferred to the wrong wheels and lose traction. I have also read that if the spring rates aren't strong enough, you risk damaging your chasis as the bar can over power the springs.
 

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I put the the front and rear ST bars on my car and I'm very happy with the results.
 

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not to interrupt
, but I have 450 lb/in springs up front and 350 lb/in springs in the rear, and my car has great rotation. Since your H&R sport rates are equal front and rear (is this correct?), I would recommend upgrading the front sway, because I think that with the equal rates and only a 22 mm up front, your tail will be too squirly.
 

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So what happens when coming hard into a corner when you upgrade the front sway bar to let's say 24mm w/a 22mm ITR rear sway and stock springs? I just want to know the effects that the larger front sway would have on a car with a 22mm ITR rear sway, leave the springs out of it.

Edit: That would be on an LS/RS/GS/SE
 

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well, I'll give my thoughts, although I have no more credibility in the subject matter than a goldfish (ok, maybe not a goldfish, but...) With a 24 mm sway and stock springs, turn in should be better (with the wheel more responsive), but ultimately there will be understeer, with the front plowing. Turn in would be much better with stiffer springs/shocks up front. Bushings also go a loooooooooooong way when considering these things.
 

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Driving style will also have a great effect on that.


wannab16a on Apr/05/04 said:
right on, what kind of springs are you running with that setup?
Neuspeed race and Koni yellows!
I also have good rotation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
.... so does this make it a concesus that the 24mm isn't too much for the spring rate I have? Like styleteg mentioned, I am considering the overall package here....
thanks for letting me in on your springs there opeth. So I know that the st's work good for you with your higher spring rate... there must be a suspension genious waiting in the wings somewhere. The articles and threads I have read say that matching the rate and torsion bar thickness is important, but i couldn't find a scale like

19mm best compliments 250-300 lbft
20mm (ect)
I guess i'll just have to install these and come back with my findings!
 

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wannab16a on Apr/06/04 said:
there must be a suspension genious waiting in the wings somewhere...
I guess i'll just have to install these and come back with my findings!
Unfortunately, there really isn't a set table of values that work with one another. When it comes to suspension, it is difficult to get good objective data. I have done days and days worth of research on certain components and aspects of my car, but more often than not it has come down to trial and error, and this is where I learned the most. Good luck, I hope you find what you're looking for without too much trouble.
 

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Opeth13 is spot on there!!!^^^^
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
opeth13 on Apr/06/04 said:
Quote: wannab16a on Apr/06/04there must be a suspension genious waiting in the wings somewhere... I guess i'll just have to install these and come back with my findings!
Unfortunately, there really isn't a set table of values that work with one another. When it comes to suspension, it is difficult to get good objective data. I have done days and days worth of research on certain components and aspects of my car, but more often than not it has come down to trial and error, and this is where I learned the most. Good luck, I hope you find what you're looking for without too much trouble.
As do I. Thanks for your well wishes and input fella's. I will update this post with my opinion on the handling once the bars are installed. And I will also post again if (heaven forbid) something goes really wrong with the kit.... It would all be so much easier if it were free... trial and error would be more like a funded science project...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Okay, as promised I am returning with my results. Let me begin by apologizing for repeatedly using the term "torsion bar" in the place of sway bar. Two completely different components and I should have known better. Let me remention my set up. 17 inch wheels with nitto 405's (205/40/17), h&r sport springs, kyb gr2's (which I plan to change) and now ST FRoNT AND REAR SWAYS.
The body roll is almost non existant now. This, however is the only good thing I have to say about these bars as of now aside from the fact that they haven't fallen off yet. I took a spirited drive last night (before the install) so that I would have a very accurate comparison in handling characteristics. I took a less spirited drive tonight (after the install) and I am disappointed to say the least. My traction now is sub par at best. With my previous set up, I would have extremely minimal oversteer and excellent predictable handling. After reading about several people totaling their rides when they newly swap sways, I decided to take it easy. even when I am only moderatly pushing my lateral traction, all four tires break loose. The nose doesn't dive out like understeer, Its more like spinning out in a corner with a 4wd. All four tires breaks loose at once and with little or no warning. Needless to say I am an unsatisfied customer as I performed this upgrade in the interest of increasing cornering ability. Now I have wasted money and have a car the handles worse than before. My only real thought for making this package work is getting beefier tires... does anyone else have suggestions/ comments? will I just get used to it? drive differently and it will handle better?
 

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Please note that, upgrading everything else without upgrading your tires won't get you the most out of your setup... in the end, it is still the tires who are touching the ground and giving you traction and sh*tz. Personally, after my research, i think using stock front sway bar, and 19mm or 22mm rear sway bar should provide better/enough improvement, for daily drive handling...

Right now your 4 wheels breaking loose, i think it might be that your tires are finish maybe? Or you just haven't get use to how your car handles yet...

btw, how big is the rear sway?
 
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