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mrmad
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Temecula, CA Sep/04/06 1995 GSR User ID: 70270 Name: Mike
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Last Here
9/7/2010 |
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I think you should think about what you would do with your design after it is built before you put the $ and effort into it.
I'm not trying to be negative and think what ever you're doing is cool, but believe it would be naive if you've only gotten as far as thinking you can patent it and you'll have the auto companies in a bidding war over the rights.
In the late 70's 2 guys in S Cal had what they thought was a better idea for a motocross rear suspension. They built a prototype and it worked better then the dual shock design. They even managed to get Suzuki to come out to a test track and check it out. Then 2 years later, Sukuzi introduced the "Full Floater" rear suspension, which was similar. Who knows if Suzuki was developing something similar or if they blantantly copied it. The last I read of this was in the late 80's or early 90's, the two guys had been tied up in court with Suzuki for over 10 years and were running out of $ to fight them.
Also remember that as much as you'd need a patent (or patents) to protect your idea, unless you do something with it,in some respects, all they do is make your idea public. And the patent expires 17 years later. Which at your age seems like a long time, but to raise enough money to build some kind of an engine company it isn't.
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TurboLS  |
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Today's Blog 
Columbia, MD Mar/22/02 1994 LS User ID: 974 Name: R.E.V.
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Last Here
9/10/2010 |
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Quote: Originally posted by mrmad on Nov/28/06
I think you should think about what you would do with your design after it is built before you put the $ and effort into it.
I'm not trying to be negative and think what ever you're doing is cool, but believe it would be naive if you've only gotten as far as thinking you can patent it and you'll have the auto companies in a bidding war over the rights.
In the late 70's 2 guys in S Cal had what they thought was a better idea for a motocross rear suspension. They built a prototype and it worked better then the dual shock design. They even managed to get Suzuki to come out to a test track and check it out. Then 2 years later, Sukuzi introduced the "Full Floater" rear suspension, which was similar. Who knows if Suzuki was developing something similar or if they blantantly copied it. The last I read of this was in the late 80's or early 90's, the two guys had been tied up in court with Suzuki for over 10 years and were running out of $ to fight them.
Also remember that as much as you'd need a patent (or patents) to protect your idea, unless you do something with it,in some respects, all they do is make your idea public. And the patent expires 17 years later. Which at your age seems like a long time, but to raise enough money to build some kind of an engine company it isn't.
Thanks for the information. This idea along with another one I have on spark plugs have had patents submitted for them. However, I also know how hard OEMs try to bypass patent claims.. Once I have something I think will work, I'll just sit on it and spend a while thinking of all the knock offs... That way, I'll be protected to some degree. However, patenting overseas is another issue altogether and requires even more money. Organizations like WIPO and PCT are only half the battle. Enforcement overseas is also not so stellar... Again, I agree with the general consensus that I need to think this through a lot more before fabrication, but I still feel like I should ask questions and accept advice where it is warranted. And yeah, in terms of business status, I am still an individual. I will have to make that call when I hear back about my grant proposals.
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Rent and/or Lend those High Dollar Specialty Tools!
My High CR/B18B1 Low Boost Thread |
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Equil 
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Got stolen in, CT Oct/26/06 1994 LS User ID: 71819 Name: Justin
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Last Here
2/16/2009 |
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Its not so much about money though. I mean, It would be great to have, but this thread is not Ramzi trying to get rich or die trying 50 cent style. Its more of a personal project.
Word up to all the DIYers.
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Teggie went byebye's 2/6/07. Thanks theives!
Teg-less. |
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TurboLS |
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Today's Blog
Columbia, MD Mar/22/02 1994 LS User ID: 974 Name: R.E.V.
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Last Here
9/10/2010 |
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Yeah, Equil is right... I just like to check out innovative things to try on the integra. If I feel inclined to pursue it into a business, then I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
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TurboLS |
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Today's Blog
Columbia, MD Mar/22/02 1994 LS User ID: 974 Name: R.E.V.
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9/10/2010 |
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Oh yeah, I also found this during research. It would definitely help with tuning the acoustics of the IM and plenum for a variable valve setup.
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TurboLS |
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Today's Blog
Columbia, MD Mar/22/02 1994 LS User ID: 974 Name: R.E.V.
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9/10/2010 |
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I just realized that one of the crucial design challenges may be overcome with the layout of the VTEC head as opposed to the non-VTEC head. I took a look at Jacksont001's article on head comparisons and noticed that the VTEC rockers are mounted on a tube that runs through each rocker such that they are held in place, whereas the non-VTEC rocker is held down simple with pressure from the cams. The VTEC design will be much better for my app since the axial motion will make the rockers "want" to move out of place during operation. I'm also coming to the realization that the VTEC oiling system or something similar will be needed as opposed to that of the non-VTEC head. However, I only have one spare non-VTEC head at this point, so I was wondering what changes have to be made to the non-VTEC head to make it on par with the VTEC one in terms of lubrication efficiency. again, any input is appreciated, altho i may bite the bullet and throw down for a VTEC head to examine up close... thanks guys.
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integratuner77
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Northern, VA Oct/08/03 1995 SE User ID: 33010 Name: Mike
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Last Here
9/9/2010 |
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Hey I might be able to get you a vtec head for free to look at as long as you dont mind that it is somewhat damaged... If you are actually looking at using it then this wont work.
When I dropped a valve it tore up the head so I just went with new head. I can call the shop and see if they still have my torn up head lieing around if you would like.
Mike
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Build Log |
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TurboLS |
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Today's Blog
Columbia, MD Mar/22/02 1994 LS User ID: 974 Name: R.E.V.
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9/10/2010 |
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Quote: Originally posted by integratuner77 on Nov/29/06
Hey I might be able to get you a vtec head for free to look at as long as you dont mind that it is somewhat damaged... If you are actually looking at using it then this wont work.
When I dropped a valve it tore up the head so I just went with new head. I can call the shop and see if they still have my torn up head lieing around if you would like.
Mike
Actually, yeah, that would be cool. The head itself doesn't need to be functional. I just need to see it up close. That would be fantastic if they still had it.
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TurboLS |
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Today's Blog
Columbia, MD Mar/22/02 1994 LS User ID: 974 Name: R.E.V.
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9/10/2010 |
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Also, in reference to acoustic tuning, BMW came out with a fully variable intake manifold. Check it out here.
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TurboLS |
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Today's Blog
Columbia, MD Mar/22/02 1994 LS User ID: 974 Name: R.E.V.
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9/10/2010 |
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Time for my next batch of questions.. Nothing too serious.
What apparatus is used (if any) to analyze changes in duration, overlap other than an engine test stand or a car on the dyno? Anything similar to a flowbench that analyzes the benefits of different lifts on a given head?
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TurboLS |
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Today's Blog
Columbia, MD Mar/22/02 1994 LS User ID: 974 Name: R.E.V.
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9/10/2010 |
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OK, well, Acura got back to me with the following letter:
I also did some measurements and just visual inspections of the B18B head last night. Here are my thoughts.
The outer diameter of the cams in the non-lobed areas is 27.00 mm. This means that whatever I do put in there as a replacement has to be no larger than that without grinding the cam caps.
I also decided that the inner diameter of the sliding portion should be about 14.5 mm to give .5mm of play and also to allow areas for oil to flow for lubrication purposes. This leaves the outer diameter of the cam to be 13.5mm in diameter, which is the distance measured inside the distributor tooth sleeve on the intake cam. With this design, the distributor will need to be slightly modified to still be driven by the cam rotation, but this is not a major issue.
I also noticed that there is about 3.5mm between the lobes. See below.
and moved...
I also noticed that the non-lobed portions slide axially under the cam caps relatively easily, which makes things a bit easier. See below.
and moved...
The next thing I noticed was the play in the rocker arms. If they are exposed to a tri-directional friction force as well as uneven loading, there is a huge chance of throwing them during operation. See the amount of play below.
and moved....
Yet another thing noticed was the separation distance between the cam caps and the valves. Notice that, aside from the ends, cam caps are really close to the valves.
and now, look at the ends.
This leads me to believe that, if I need to, I could move the end cam caps out a few millimeters to get a bit more lateral travel. This, of course, would have to be in conjunction with grinding the intermediate cam cap areas equally to allow more travel, but not sacrifice too much rigidity. As a result, this system, while doable on a nonVTEC head, may require more work than that of a VTEC head, especially since the rocker arms are held in place with a rod, making the possibility of throwing a rocker arm less likely. In addition, the 3.5mm lateral travel is kinda pushing it for going from say an idle lift of 5mm to a WOT lift of maybe 13mm. That is a sharp ramp and the contact area on the rocker arm would have to compensate as well, to reduce bending stresses and maintain heat transfer capabilities.
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effective1
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FL Oct/17/05 1995 GSR User ID: 61830
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Last Here
8/13/2007 |
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Just read through several pages of posts here and wondering, from a practical standpoint, what's to be gained over the I-VTEC system? Two stages of lift and a fair amount of variable valve timing heaped on top of it have gone a long way.
In fact, in essence, the I-VTEC incorporates a couple of dozen different cam profiles -- X 2 when you add in a high-lift lobe. At what point diminishing returns?
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greaseman
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At Acura in, MD Jul/14/03 1992 LS User ID: 27500 Name: Brian
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Last Here
1/19/2010 |
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Quote: Originally posted by TurboLS on Dec/04/06
Time for my next batch of questions.. Nothing too serious.
What apparatus is used (if any) to analyze changes in duration, overlap other than an engine test stand or a car on the dyno? Anything similar to a flowbench that analyzes the benefits of different lifts on a given head?
a cam doctor measures lift, duration etc..
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02' S2000 T4/T67 546whp/336wtq @ 20psi 93 Pump
92' Integra LS - Beater
98' H2B LS 13.93 @ 100.6 SOLD
94' 2.0L GSR t4/t67 SOLD OUT..
-Acura Factory Trained/ASE Certified/ADV L1 Tech |
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TurboLS |
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Today's Blog
Columbia, MD Mar/22/02 1994 LS User ID: 974 Name: R.E.V.
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9/10/2010 |
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Quote: Originally posted by H2BluByYou on Dec/06/06
Quote: Originally posted by TurboLS on Dec/04/06Time for my next batch of questions.. Nothing too serious.
What apparatus is used (if any) to analyze changes in duration, overlap other than an engine test stand or a car on the dyno? Anything similar to a flowbench that analyzes the benefits of different lifts on a given head?
a cam doctor measures lift, duration etc..
I was referring to what type of setup would measure the benefits of changes in duration and overlap. Like, for example, if I increase duration at a given RPM and load, can I measure the resultant changes in anything other than a fully operational engine??
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