Due to multiple Threads on this topic that we have been answering recently, I am posting this up.
I and others have posted this information many times before, And we have articles covering related items (please check them out). While consolidating the info I found that Ben Ogle, XDEP, and The OZ over at G2IC have such great write ups, that I couldn't help borrowing them to supplement the info that already exists here.
Team-integra Articles
Ignition Troubleshooting
Adjusting Idle speed
How to adjust your ignition timing (GEN3)
How to adjust your ignition timing (GEN2) article from G2ic.com is shown below
How advancing timing works
A few items that need pointing out, here are the locations of the Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) and the Fast Idle Thermo Valve (FITV) on your manifold.
Additionally the bolt patterns between years are different, but some Manifolds (IE certain years GSR) has the bolt holes to accomodate both.
the gsr has bolt holes that will accept the wide or narrow IACV bolts.
the 94+ b18b's and 98 + itrs use the narrow bolt pattern.
the 90-93 b18a's and older b16a's use the wide pattern.
the above pic is a gsr manifold, the bottom pic is a b18a/b16a IACV and a Type-r IM.
I and others have posted this information many times before, And we have articles covering related items (please check them out). While consolidating the info I found that Ben Ogle, XDEP, and The OZ over at G2IC have such great write ups, that I couldn't help borrowing them to supplement the info that already exists here.
Team-integra Articles
Ignition Troubleshooting
Adjusting Idle speed
How to adjust your ignition timing (GEN3)
How to adjust your ignition timing (GEN2) article from G2ic.com is shown below
How advancing timing works
A few items that need pointing out, here are the locations of the Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) and the Fast Idle Thermo Valve (FITV) on your manifold.
Additionally the bolt patterns between years are different, but some Manifolds (IE certain years GSR) has the bolt holes to accomodate both.
the gsr has bolt holes that will accept the wide or narrow IACV bolts.
the 94+ b18b's and 98 + itrs use the narrow bolt pattern.
the 90-93 b18a's and older b16a's use the wide pattern.
the above pic is a gsr manifold, the bottom pic is a b18a/b16a IACV and a Type-r IM.
Bad Idle Troubleshooting By Ben Ogle said:This is mostly for high and roaming idles but may work for low idles as well.
First, terms:
TB - Throttle Body
IM - Intake Manifold
IACV - Idle Air Control Valve (also called the Electronic Air Control Valve or EACV)
FITV - Fast Idle Thermo Valve
TPS - Throttle Position Sensor
I finally got the swap (b18a) in my civic but unfortunately when I started it up it idled at 3k. Then when it warmed up it had a hunting idle from 2k to 2500 rpm. I stood over that thing for 3 days, testing and scratching my head. on top of that I did a ToN of searching on the h-t, hybrid boards, and on G2IC. I hope what is contained within helps someone. Maybe they wont have to go through as much work as I did.
The idle on our Hondas is a tricky thing. It is controlled by two main sensors: the FITV and the IACV. The FITV is a mechanical valve that is controlled by coolant temperature (there is no ECU plug to it). When the coolant is cold the valve is open and letting air into the IM through a hole in the TB before the throttle plate. This essentially creates a small vacuum leak which in turn lets the motor idle higher than normal (supposed to be around 1500-2k for warming up). As the coolant warms up the valve closes and no longer lets air in through the hole in the throttle body. All the while the IACV, which is ECU controlled, is letting small amounts of air into the IM through another hole in the TB. Any amount of extra air the ECU is not expecting will confuse it and you will get either a high idle or a roaming/hunting/fluctuating idle. on to the troubleshooting.
First things first, don't skip any of these steps. From what I have read (and experienced) usually small dumb things cause these problems so don't overlook anything. Also refer back up to the pictures if need be.
1) Check your vacuum routing. on the underside of your hood there should be a vacuum diagram. If there isn't a diagram under there, there is one in a Helms, Chiltons, or Haynes manual for your car (you should have one of these anyway). Remember, ANY extra air will confuse the ECU. Check for cracked or bad vacuum hoses. If in doubt just replace the hose, they are cheap.
The PCV valve could also be the culprit. Take it out and examine it. If it is cracked it could be causing a vacuum leak. Replace the peice if you arent completely sure it is ok (the helms/chiltons/haynes manuals tell you how to check it).
2) Check to see that your throttle plate is closed all the way. Take your intake off at the TB and check to see that nothing is blocking the plate. If nothing is in the way and it isn't closed all the way, loosen your throttle cable.
3) Check to see if the nuts holding the TB and the IM on are tight, this was the source of my idle problem. If they are loose, tighten them.
3.5) Check the Idle screw. Its on the top of the TB right next to the red vacuum line in the first picture. Its a flat-tip screw and most TB's have it epoxied over. If your screw is not epoxied over try adjusting it.
4) Bleed your coolant. Some air bubbles may throw the FITV off and keep the valve open.
5) Take the 3 10mm bolts out of the FITV (you don't have to take off the coolant lines). Then take off the 2 8mm bolts off the plate on the back of the FITV. once the plate is off you will see a white plastic thing, screw that all the way in. This causes a ToN of people's hunting idle problems (it's a source of a vacuum leak). Put the FITV back on and start the car up. If it still idles bad go on. Here is a writeup on the FITV. {Jacksont001 note: it is located below}
6) Clean the IACV screen(s). See Oz's write up on G2IC. {Jacksont001 note: it is located below}
7) Make sure your car is completely warmed up. With it running, take the intake off the TB. There are 2 holes right in front of the throttle plate, these are the holes that feed the IACV (top hole) and the FITV (bottom hole). With your finger, cover up the bottom hole (it should NOT be sucking if your car is warmed up). If the idle goes down the FITV is to blame, either get a new one or take it apart and screw the valve completely closed (I have only read of people doing this, so I don't know exactly how. Also, you will have to keep the engine speed up yourself when the car is cold).
Next cover both holes up with your fingers. The car should sputter and die (or almost die). If it does then the source of your crappy idle is the IACV. Replace it. If you want you can test the IACV. Shut the car off and put + battery voltage to the blk/yel terminal (on the valve) and momentarily touch ground to the blu/yel side. When doing this the valve should click, if it doesn't, replace it.
If, when covering both holes the car still has a high idle, you have a vacuum leak somewhere. Again check the IM and TB nuts. You can spray carb cleaner around those areas and if any gets sucked in (the engine will rev) you have found your leak. Another source of vacuum leaks are where the FITV and IACV connect to the IM. Either replace the gaskets or use silicone gasket sealant.
8) If nothing has worked you should test your TPS. Probe the middle wire on the TPS plug (with the key on but not running, and the plug still connected to the sensor) with the + probe on the volt meter, and the neg probe to ground. You should have .5v with a fully closed throttle plate and 4.8v with it wide open. If the TPS is off, replace it. My TPS was .425v to 4.55v and it idles fine now so I don't know how big the margin of error is. Also, it is pretty rare for these to go bad.
9) If, still, nothing has worked you might want to try a new ECU. This also is very unlikely, but worth a try.
10) If it still idles bad, go through the steps again.
It was a pain to have this mysterious problem and very little info on how to go about troubleshooting it. The idle problem is a real PITA because there are so many things that cause the same result (the hunting idle). When I had this problem I read through a ton of posts over at Honda-tech describing the exact same problem but when I PMed them, they all had different fixes. I hope this covers all of the possibilities. If I skipped over anything PLEASE let me know
Quote: Posted by The Oz at G2ic.com Teg Tip: Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) Removal/Cleaning Procedures...
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NOTES FROM THE AUTHOR
Well, BR explained it pretty simply. So, when I was able to rent the digicam the other day, I decided to clean the IACV and post it up. This is pretty straightforward, with the coolant lines being the only hassle (probably because I'm just too weak ).
CREDITS
BR - Well, he opened the doors and pretty much explained things very well.
INTRODUCTIoN
Task: Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) Removal, Installation, Cleaning
Difficulty: Easy
Time Required: Actual work is 30 minutes. Drying time is 3 hours depending on your preference.
Engine Used in this Guide: 89-91 B16A
Engines Applicable: Other B-Series engines will differ, but the idea is basically the same.
TOOLS REQUIRED
- 3/8" Ratchet
- 3/8" 12mm Socket
- 12mm Closed-End Wrench (if Ratchet is not available)
- Assorted Long Nose Pliers
- Carb Cleaner (readily available at your local Automotive Store)
- Towels
- Air Compressor
- Compressed Gas Can such as "Dust-Off" (used for computers) can be substituted if Air compressor is not available.
NOTE: If the pictures do not show, click here for the album: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291328805
STEP 1
Figure 1 shows the location of the IACV. Get yourself familiarized with what you're about to do. NOTE: It is highly recommended that you do the work with the engine COLD.
Fig. 1 - IACV Location inside Engine Bay
STEP 2
Take a 12mm socket or wrench and remove the bolts shown in Fig. 2. The IACV will simply detach itself from the intake manifold.
Fig. 2 - Remove Mounting Bolts
STEP 3
once the bolts are removed, you need to remove the 2 coolant hoses and the 2P Connector from the IACV. Use long-nose pliers to loosen the clamps that hold the coolant hoses tight. Fig. 3 shows the IACV removed from the engine and I have highlighted the items for clarity. Be careful not lose that O-Ring!!
Fig. 3 - Where everything is
STEP 4
Refer again to Figure 3 in Step 3 for reference. Take the Carb Cleaner and liberally spray the inside of the 2 holes shown in Figure 3. It may be best to remove the O-Ring if possible as I noticed that the Carb Cleaner SWELLED the rubber. However, the swelling should subside in a couple of hours. once you are finished with the Carb Cleaner, take the Air Compressor and inject compressed air in the holes to dry.
What I have done is this: Spent approx. 30 seconds per hole injecting it with Carb Cleaner. Then spent 2 min. per hole with the Air Compressor. I then flooded the 2 holes with Carb Cleaner again and laid it down on the ground as shown in Figure 3. I left it soaking like that for approx. 1 hour. After which, I pumped the air compressor again to dry it. Just to be on the safe side, I left it to "natural dry" for 2 hours before installing it back on the engine.
STEP 5
Installation is reverse. Do not mix the Coolant hoses around. Although, I do not see any forseeable damage if you do (just be on the safe side, though). Don't forget the O-Ring gasket. That is quite important if you want to minimize air leaks. Take your baby out for a spin!
CoNCLUSIoN
As far as I know, the IACV does not operate unless the engine has reached normal operating temperatures. Until it does, the Fast Idle Thermo Valve does the work. Again, I could be wrong. In any case, it is better to test the IACV while the engine has completely warmed up.
My bouncing idle has been fixed previously. However, I have noticed I feel less vibration in the ****pit during Idle after this maintenance.
If you have any questions, either post 'em here or email me at the_oz@hotmail.com
Regards,
Oz
Quote: Posted by by XDEep at G2ic.com
Teg Tip: Fast Idle Thermo Valve (FITV) adjustment/removal/internals
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Fast Idle Thermo Valve (FITV)
Disassembled
INFO: At room temperature, the wax in the enclosure is small enough so that the needle is pressed in by the spring loaded valve, thus letting in air through the ring-cap and increasing the idle. The needle sticks out 6mm. As the temperature of the coolant rises to about 150F, the wax expands and the needle eventually protrudes to about 11mm at around 220F. The force of the needle on the spring keeps the valve closed. If the ring-cap is loose, there is not enough force to keep the valve closed thus letting in air and raising the idle when not necessary. These are the steps needed to tighten the ring-cap:
1. The FITV is held in by three #10 bolts. Remove the bolts to release the valve from the manifold. You do not need to remove the two coolant lines unless you do not have enough room to do the next step.
2. The plate is held on with two #8 bolts. Remove the bolts to get the cap off. The plate will fall easily so be sure to catch it.
3. Now you have access to the cream colored ring-cap inside. What you want to do is tighten it. There are 2 slits along the ring. Unless you have a short screwdriver or tool that is 1" wide, you need to use two screwdrivers in unison to tighten it.
4. Reattach the plate and bolt the valve back on to finish the adjustment. If you removed the coolant lines, be sure to refill the coolant and bleed the system.
Quote: Advanced Timing from G2ic.
Timing @18 deg BTDC works well... More power and MPG! However, you have to use Premium Fuel. Ignition timing should be 16 +or- 2 degrees BTDC. That means you can run the car reliably in 14 or 18 BTDC.
To advance your timing properly (as directed in the manual), you need a timing light. A timing gun with adjustable knob is recommended. I think you can borrow one from any auto parts store. And Yes, the way to advance your ignition is to turn the distributor counterclockwise (toward the firewall).
*NOTE: Before attempting this make sure you have high octane fuel 92 or better.
1) Since you will be turning the distributor to adjust, loosen the distributor housing bolts slightly (not the distributor cap screws).
2) Find the "Timing adjustment connector" under the dash (passenger kick panel area). This connector has a green/white wire & a brown wire. You need to connect the two somehow (do not cut into the wires). Connect them by using a jumper wire (bent paperclip).
3) Start the engine and let it warm up to normal operating temperature.
4) Connect timing gun. The timing light has connectors to your car battery (+ & -), and a Clip for hugging the #1 cylinder spark plug wire. Clip the Cyl#1 spark plug wire (dont disconnect wire from spark plug). Then, connect + & - to the car battery. The timing gun will emit a strobe light when the trigger is pulled. Locate the marker (aiming point) on the timing belt cover. It is located above the crank pulley and its the one you'll be aiming at.
5) Adjust the timing knob on the timing gun at +18deg. Aim the light down towards marker on timing belt cover and the crank pulley.
6) You should see the red timing line on the crank pulley. This is the line that you have to line up with the marker on the timing belt cover. With your left hand, turn the distributor until the timing line on the crank pulley lines up with the marker.
7) When both are aligned, tighten the distributor housing bolts, disconnect the timing light and your jumper wire under the dash. Done!
*Note: If you couldn't find the red mark on your crank pulley, you'll have to make it visible somehow. The marks sit inside grooves on the crank pulley. With motor off, I used a red pen to remark the timing line.
Romans
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NOTES FROM THE AUTHOR
I personally believe that the current Teg Tip submission for fiddling with the Integra's ignition timing is well explained. However, it can be improved upon IMHO. Therefore, my version of this Teg Tip will be more of a supplement to the first.
The first Teg Tip actually shows a good example of the 3 dash marks etched on the crank pulley for timing reference - I strongly suggest that you read that, and pay close attention to the figures shown in that writeup.
In this article, I will not go into any detail regarding octane requirements, what's good, what's bad, etc. I will stick to only what needs to be done in order to check & adjust your ignition timing. I will actually do a full writeup on octane ratings and how it affects G2 Integras soon which I would like for everybody to share their thoughts on. I just would not like to discuss that here.
INTRO
Task: Check & Adjust Ignition Timing (or Advance Ignition Timing - for the people that use the search button....hehehehehe).
Difficulty: Easy
Cars Applicable: 90-93 Integras (RS, LS, GS US & Canadian models) - more particularly, cars fitted with the B18A1 engine. It MAY apply to GS-R models fitted with the B17A and/or cars fitted with the B16A 1st Gen.
Car Used in This Guide: 1992 Integra GS 4dr. Auto w/a B18A1.
Tools Required
- 12mm box wrench
- Jumper Wire (Paper clip will do)
- Inductive Timing Light
When it comes to the Timing light, you don't have to go fancy. I bought mine for $55CAN which was the cheapest available. You may opt to get ones that come with Tachometers, but since G2 Integras come with a factory Tach., you don't really need to spend on anything more fancy.
STEP 1
Please do the work in an open space with adequate air flow. You may suffer from Carbon monoxide poisoning as a consequence.
The first thing to do is to make sure that the engine is warmed up. Let the engine warm up to normal engine temperatures (radiator fan should come on at least once). Idle RPM should be at factory specs. (750RPM roughly).
Turn the engine off, and underneath the passenger-side kick panel, look for this terminal (see Fig. 1). You may have to remove the plastic kick panel in order to access it. Connect a jumper wire in the terminal to create a connection between the green/white and brown terminal (see fig. 1).
Fig. 1 - Connect Green/White And Brown Terminal using Jumper Wire.
STEP 2
Open the hood. If you have not done any engine work in the past, familiarize yourself with some of the engine components that will be discussed in this guide (see fig. 2).
Hook up the Inductive timing light by connecting the positive jumper cable to the positive battery terminal, negative jumper cable to the negative battery terminal, and the inductive pickup on Spark Plug Wire #1 (see fig. 2).
Fig. 2 - Hookup Inductive Pickup on Spark Plug Wire #1.
STEP 3 - CHECKING IGNITIoN TIMING
Turn on the engine. With the engine running, turn on the timing gun and point it down the driver side where the engine pulleys are. Fig. 3a shows that you should place the timing gun on the right hand side of the engine mount. This will give your head enough space to peak down on the engine main pulley to see the timing pointer (fig. 3b).
Here is the confusing part. Unfortunately, LL Cool B and I didn't have time to turn the engine at TDC in order to see the 3 hash marks on the main pulley (and thus couldn't take a pic). This is where you should refer to the first Teg Tip regarding Advance Timing. That will show an excellent pictorial on where the 3 hash marks are located. I've quickly created an half-a$$ version of that (see fig. 3c).
The 3 ||| marks are etched on the side of the main engine pulley. So, when you point the timing light (make sure it is on of course) on the timing pointer (fig. 3b), you should be able to see these 3 hash marks close to it.
Now, the middle hash mark refers to 16 deg. BTDC which is stock. The hash mark closest to the passenger compartment is 14deg., and the hash mark closest to the headlight is 18deg. What you need to do first, is to keep note as to where your timing pointer is relative to these 3 hash marks before proceeding in adjusting your timing. REMEMBER: To look at the timing pointer directly above it, NOT on an angle. Otherwise, you will get false readings.
Fig. 3a - Where to position the timing gun.
Fig. 3b - Where is that bloody Timing Pointer?
Fig. 3c - My poor attempt to show you the 3 hash marks. The 3 ||| marks are the hash marks on the edge of the pulley.
Engine side
=====|||=======
| ALT. BELT HERE | Towards Firewall
==============
Fender side
STEP 4
If you are not satisfied with the current ignition timing of the vehicle, you can adjust it. Fig. 4a and Fig. 4b shows the 3 hold-down bolts that hold the distributor in place. Yes, the third hold-down is hard to see on the pic, but I've shown you the general location and it will look exactly the same as the rest of the hold-down bolts.
Before you touch these bolts, you might want to turn off the engine first just to be on the safe side (in case the wrench slips and/or falls, at least it doesn't have a running engine to deal with ).
Using a 12mm box wrench, LOOSEN these 3 bolts. Do not Remove them.
Fig. 4a - The first 2 hold-down bolts
Fig. 4b - The 3rd hold-down bolt. It's there somewhere
STEP 5 - ADJUSTMENT
once the 3 bolts are loose, turn the engine back on. In order to adjust the timing, you must turn the distributor. Fig. 5 shows you which way to turn the distributor in order to achieve an advance or a retard in timing.
Fig. 5 - Which way to advance or retard.
STEP 6
once you are happy with your desired timing setting, temporarily tighten the top hold-down bolt and recheck the timing (to make sure the timing is still correct). You may then proceed tightening the rest of the bolts (turn off the engine if you do not feel comfortable). once all 3 are tightened (DO NOT OVER TORQUE), recheck the timing again and adjust if necessary.
Do not forget to remove the jumper wire underneath the passenger side kick panel. Undo the timing light and close the hood. Take the car for a spin.
CoNCLUSIoN
Yes, I did not discuss as to how far you should advance your timing, what gas to use, etc. Like I said, I will discuss that in another post because I believe that it will be a good debate topic. If the images do not show, you may visit the album at Imagestation here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291593117
N FUL FX - I hope you can append this to the existing Teg Tip about ignition timing. Thanks.
Any questions/comments, either post 'em here or email me at the_oz@hotmail.com Please type on the subject line, "RE: Integra Ignition Timing" or something to that effect as I get a lot of junk mail.
Regards,
-OZ
the_oz@hotmail.com
Thanks LL Cool B - For using his car as a guinea pig
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When torquing the distributor mounting bolts (12mm), make sure you pay attention to the 17 lb-ft limit. If you don't already have a torque wrench, it's time to pick one up.
Also... when advancing or retarding your timing, it may be easier to 'move' the distributor by putting a thick cloth or towel over a medium sized wrench and 'tap' lightly in the direction your want to adjust (i.e. towards the windshield to advance or towards the headlights to retard).
I am not sure if Oz mentioned this or not, but to keep things simple is important. After you have jumped the service connector under the pass. side dash, make sure that the timing light is connected properly (you should see the 'flashes' show up on the check engine light on the dash.
one more in the name of simplicity... Get the nose of the gun as close to the hash marks as you can -- it will make them more visible. The stock 16 deg BDC setting is the RED mark (if that helps).
-NEEX