94 GSR mid-engine RWD H22A4 conversion - Page 10 - Team Integra Forums - Team Integra

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Old 09-07-2004, 09:14 AM   #127 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubersonicblugsr on Sep/07/04
Jumpin Jehosaphat!!! This has to be the sickest thing I have ever seen in my life. Paul, Paul Jr. and Mike don't have anything on you man. I got this thread bookmarked so I can follow you, this will be like my daily crack, lol.
Charlie, you're such a redneck

This is by far the coolest thing I've seen in a while--let us know what happens, man. Keep up the good work!
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Old 09-07-2004, 09:16 AM   #128 (permalink)
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This is one very interesting thread. Great pics and explanation of what you are doing. I, like almost all the others here, am anxious to see the results that you come up with. Good job on having the desire to tackle a project like this by yourself. Keep up the good work.
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Old 09-07-2004, 09:36 AM   #129 (permalink)
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Good Mornimg Everyone!

Let me start this post by thanking all of you very much for your tremendous response, support, and encouragement for this project. It has all been extremely helpful in many ways. I will do my best to try to keep up with your questions and comments, however please don't be discouraged if I haven't responded directly or immediately to your post. It's not at all because I'm not interested, as I've read and thought about every one of them. In some cases, I anticipate answers to your questions forthcoming in future updates. The response to this project has been overwhelming, thanks to you, and I'm also trying to keep up over at the Honda_Tech forum. I've been spending about 2 hours each morning on the computer, and I hate that I really can't afford to keep up this pace, and spend the time I need to get the project finished ASAP. Please be patient as I will be posting updates as soon as significant progress has been made. Naturally, the more time I spend working on the car, the quicker the updates will come. Thanks very much for your understanding

I have a question for you: How many pages should we allow this topic to get to before starting another?

Thanks,
Dave
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Old 09-07-2004, 09:53 AM   #130 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfddfd2 on Sep/07/04
I have a question for you: How many pages should we allow this topic to get before starting another?

Thanks,
Dave
No need to start another thread. It can go on as long as you want. You can edit your posts here, you could document it all, then at the end, put it all in your first post, or however you'd like.
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Old 09-07-2004, 10:16 AM   #131 (permalink)
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Wow, what a great post to read just coming back from vacation. And I thought my turbo install was complex!
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Old 09-07-2004, 10:18 AM   #132 (permalink)
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Booo ... just keep making updates don't edit. It'll better show us you're progress than to edit previous posts.
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Old 09-07-2004, 10:30 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Wow simply amazing, good luck with this project, my hubby was very excited to see what you are doing!!
Def update us on what is going on

Michele
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Old 09-07-2004, 11:54 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfddfd2 on Sep/07/04
I have a question for you: How many pages should we allow this topic to get before starting another?
id say keep it and save steve the bandwith
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Old 09-07-2004, 03:37 PM   #135 (permalink)
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dfddfd2: your next challenge, dual engine 4WD. LOL.
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Old 09-07-2004, 11:13 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfddfd2 on Sep/06/04
As an example, because of 98integraLs's questions, I've decided to wait until I can set the car on it's wheels and check the weight distribution with engine/transaxle installed before making the final decision on what type and where to put the fuel tank. I'll make the decision as to where to locate the battery at the same time.
just trying to help . glad to see that you are willing to take suggestions and at least give them a shot too. :thumbsup:
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Old 09-08-2004, 12:32 AM   #137 (permalink)
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Edit your first post to show what page you've added another post!!
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Old 09-08-2004, 12:37 AM   #138 (permalink)
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Yes the best idea is to keep it all in this post. You can edit your first post to what pages have the updates on them.

once again, good luck and we are all looking forward to this project of yours.
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Old 09-08-2004, 09:32 AM   #139 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Servo on Sep/06/04
Holy crap, Dave! I wish I had something more intelligent to add, but the only thing most of us are capable of is to ask questions that you probably answered for yourself months ago.

Here's my question... I seem to remember a couple rwd projects in my local area that were demoted to "drag race only" duty because the suspension geometry couldn't handle the new weight balance, power-on characteristics, or whatever. I'm curious how well using the suspension geometry from the front of another car will work. How do the upper/lower control arm lengths/angles, wheel rate, etc. compare to, say, your MR2? Do you expect to have problems here or instability to dial out?
Post #DC2H22-14
I had the same curiousity as you when I started thinking seriously about this project. The first thing I did was measure and draw to scale the original Prelude front suspension. (Actually, the very first thing I did was to spend many hours reading and studying "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" by William F. and Douglas L. Milliken, and the terms I'll use here are from that book.) From these front view and side view drawings, I was able to determine the front view instant centers (IC) and roll center and side view instant center and caster. I also measured the bump steer, which was "not too good". If I used the Prelude front suspension geometry as originally designed, the stability would have been questionable and drivability challenging. The original Prelude front geometry had the side view IC behind and below the wheel center, which created pro-lift and rearward wheel path in bump. The roll center was 7.5 cm above ground. Static caster was around +2.5 degrees, however the upper control arm (UCA) pivot axis caused caster to increase with bump travel.

The changes I've made and their affects are:
1) Raised lower control arm (LCA) front mounting point to move side view IC above wheel center to increase anti-squat and to keep wheel path rearward in bump.
2) Moved UCA forward to zero static caster.
3) Shortened UCA to increase camber gain without affecting roll center.
4) Lowered front UCA mounting point to increase camber gain, bring UCA pivot axis near parallel with LCA pivot axis to minimize caster change with wheel travel, and set the side view IC ahead and above the wheel center to set the anti-squat and wheel path. (This change also raised the roll center by 2.5cm.)
5) Lowering the front UCA mounting point in effect rotated the UCA counter clockwise as viewed from the side, so I had to rotate the upper ball joint clockwise in the UCA to realign the ball joint vertically.

Ride and roll rates will be controlled with springs, shocks (adjustable coil-overs), and anti-roll bars. Corner weight will be set at 50/50 with ride height adjustments. I'm planning on 5" ground clearance. Wheel rates will have the same proportion to spring rates as the installation ratio has not been changed. Negative scrub radius will increase slightly with increase in static camber from 0 to -1 degree (increased kingpin inclination). Scrub should be about the same because even though the front view swing arms (affective swing arm pivoting at IC) have been shortened, the front view ICs have been lowered. Static toe will start at 1/16" total toe in and bump steer will be set to maintain that toe as closely as possible and such that no toe out occurs.

Your point about "instability to dial out" is well taken and I've made both upper and lower control arm mounting points adjustable, however I believe what I have is pretty close. I won't know for sure until I've driven it, taken tire temps, and looked at tire wear patterns.

The front suspension is another story. The Prelude uprights have the wheel center ahead of the kingpin axis which reduces mechanical trail. This isn't necessarily bad as it increases the proportion of pnumatic trail to the steering feel, however I may have to increase the caster for stability. The Integra has very little caster to begin with (about 1 degree). Also, the steering arms are slightly longer, which affects steering ratio and ackerman.
Not much I can do about the steering ratio without changing the rack ratio, but I may have to shim the rack for ackerman and bump steer.

Thanks,
Dave
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Old 09-08-2004, 09:54 AM   #140 (permalink)
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Very nice Dave. I only understood about half of that post, but it seems like you've got it all figured out.
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