6.5 inch "subs" (Whaaaaaa?!?!?) - Team Integra Forums - Team Integra
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 04:24 AM Thread Starter
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6.5 inch "subs" (Whaaaaaa?!?!?)

So I like to browse and day dream about all the nice shiny parts to put on my car that end up sitting in wish lists forever when I came across http://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-Sound-SWS-6-5X-6-5-inch-Subwoofers/dp/B008MAG9YG/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1437721901&sr=8-5&keywords=6.5+inch+subwoofer
Now I know little when it comes to car audio, but what do you sound experts think? In my mind, they might be a good idea for those of us on a budget, but they also seem a kinda cheap, reminiscent of ebay.

Kinda crazy though.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 08:12 AM
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Bass is about moving air... 6.5" speaker simply won't move air

Not sure what impresses you so much about them, just because someone in their marketing department slapped the word "subwoofer" in there by no means makes it viable or any good
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 09:12 AM
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Component 6.5 woofers, with a good cone material can definitely hit low-er tones, but I wouldn't say subwoofer territory. Like Steve said, its all about moving air for bass.

Although.. Some of these crazy, new home audio systems are really making ridiculous breaks through's on bass response, I have no idea about the technology though.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 09:15 AM
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Exactly what MorningZ said, those simply don't have the volume to produce a "good" bass note or volume. Anything in the 6.5" range is not going to replace your 8/10/12/15" subwoofers. You can get a good bit of mid-bass out of a higher quality 6.5" component, but it will not be a subwoofer replacement. Two examples below, I just happen to like the Pioneer stuff.

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-TS-M650PRO-Efficiency-Mid-Range-Speakers/dp/B009MS7CP2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1437739971&sr=1-1&keywords=ts-m650pro
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-TSD1730C-D-Series-Component-Speaker/dp/B00SI4RGIY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1437740119&sr=1-1&keywords=ts-1730c

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 09:42 AM
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Anything can be better than OEM. The speakers in my car are absolutely worthless.

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 11:59 AM
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Hoffman's Iron Law:
Small, low, efficient, pick 2.

Small and low won't make any appreciable SPL.
Small and efficient won't make any bass.
Low and efficient won't be small.

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 03:19 PM
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I find it really surprising that there are so many nay sayers for the 6.5s, I haven't personally heard/used them but my friend's 8inch was louder than I would ever want my bass to be ever, and with certain music I like it pretty loud. Unless the people reviewing them are all morons, it seems people seem to think they're generally pretty decent. I was thinking of running dual 6.5s, but hell I still can't believe you guys are saying the won't produce good bass when I've even heard new speakers have plenty of bass.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 03:28 PM
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I wasn't saying they won't produce bass, but they won't product loud and clean "subwoofer" level bass.. (see paton's post above)

You cannot defy physics, and sub bass is about moving air, it's really that easy
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 03:47 PM
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Bass is about Sd, which is the effective piston diameter of a driver.

A 6.5 can get a little bit of air moving. Maybe even enough to get perceptible bass in a small room (as Z has noted). Actually, I know they can. I've built speakers like that. They're in my living room, and they sound pretty good (I used the now discontinued Vifa M18WO as my midbass).

For actual subwoofer output, from 50Hz on down to single digits, you need to move more air, and move it further. 8s are a good place to start for a room in your house. 10s are better. 12s are nice. Multiple 12s are really great. multiple 12s with big heavy passive radiators are awesome. My subs at home are quad long throw 12s (2 per box) (59mmX-max) with 2.5kg PRs, in boxes tuned to about 7Hz. They rattle the walls enough to make the drywall crack in the corners. I'm getting good at fixing it.

In a car, the rules are different. There's road noise, which goes up almost exponentially when you increase speed. There's also cabin gain, which gives you north of 6dB per octave starting around 100Hz and increasing as you go down in frequency. Cabin gain (the result of functionally being inside the outer chamber of a 4th order isobaric bandpass subwoofer) is what lets you get decent bass in a car with a single 10 or 12" woofer in the trunk powered by a few hundred watts.

If you want really good, tight, responsive, bass in a car, you want a sealed subwoofer, or subwoofers, with large Xmax, a flat BL curve (maybe something based on XBL^2 motor technology, or at the least, a very underhung voice coil), and Thiel-Small parameters that make it happy in 1-2cuft with a Q around 0.6. Tune the box so it matches the cabin gain in your car (in my 4dr, the gain is a little more than 6dB/octave and starts at 120Hz, and has a big bump at 58, and a big null at 29), and feed it 300-500W. Use a parametric EQ to tweak the peaks. You can't fix dips, those are nulls and are an acoustic issue. Move the sub around in the car to take care of them.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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Cool, just looking for some info. Like I said, I know very little about audio and I was curious. But good to know they'll make such a difference over stock in case I ever decide to make a audio budget!
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 04:30 PM
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I love it when @dpaton gets on his engineering lingo kicks.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atkinsonar View Post
I love it when @dpaton gets on his engineering lingo kicks.
Just the way I see the world. My brain is weird like that.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorningZ View Post
I wasn't saying they won't produce bass, but they won't product loud and clean "subwoofer" level bass.. (see paton's post above)
You cannot defy physics, and sub bass is about moving air, it's really that easy
I like this answer.... Yet if you find a audio speaker manufacture that produces a long throw/double stake 6.5" woofer you would get your sub-frequencies , but not loud... Yet for the money, and the space needed in the vehicle.. 8"subwoofer, shallow 10" subwoofers is you best bet........
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