Team Integra Forums banner

Anatomy of a B-series Distributor

149K views 29 replies 16 participants last post by  JRutski  
#1 · (Edited)
Tampering with the distributors position on the engine will change the timing. So if you are not familiar with how to adjust said timing, DoN'T touch it. You can do SERIOUS damage to the engine. This article requires the removal of the distributor- which is done by removing 3 bolts from the head, and 2 (OBD1) or 1 (OBD2) harness plugs. If you do not know how to re-set the timing, or do not have it marked DO NOT REMOVE OR EVEN TOUCH THE DISTRIBUTOR. You have been warned.

This is written with an OBD-1 distributor as a reference...but it applies to OBD-2 as well, with only a few differences (mainly the harness plug difference).

The distributor on a B-series engine is VERY important. Why? 2 reasons.

1. It controls the ignition.
2. It houses some of the most important sensors that the ECU relies on for normal operation*

*with the exception of TPS, MAP, and temperature sensors.

Here is a schematic of an OBD-2 distributor taken from the Helms manual:
Image


First, lets talk about the sensors- there are 3:

-TDC: Top dead center
-CYP: Cylinder position
-CKP: Crankshaft position

Using these 3 sensors, the ECU can determine very important things: Which cylinder should be firing, when that cylinder is at TDC, and what position or angle the crankshaft is. The B-series distributor uses "hall effect" sensors to determine the position of the engines various components. I'm not exactly sure how they work, but I think the basic idea is when something breaks a magnetic field, it causes voltage to drop. I'm no EE, but here's a better explanation.

There are 2 parts to the sensors- the sensor itself (the black part) and the part on the distributor shaft itself. Here they are in the distributor (with everything else removed):
Image

*NOTE: I do not know 100% for sure that these are labeled correctly, but it makes sense. I've never sat down and taken the time to determine wire colors, etc.

I have not personally seen/heard of one of these sensors going bad, but I'm sure it is possible.

Now on to the more important part of the distributor: the ignition.

The most important part of the system is the coil. It is an induction coil- being that it creates a high voltage from a lower voltage. Here's some further reading. So what happens is the primary coil windings have 12V applied to them. Wound inside of the primary winding is the secondary coil. There is a much larger number of windings- so as to produce the higher voltage. When the 12V is removed from the primary coil, the magnetic field that was formed suddenly collapses, which sends a very high voltage pulse through the secondary coil...and thus we have a spark.

Let's take apart the distributor and take a look. First take the cap off (3 screws) then the rotor (1 screw- it can be a pain!) Next pull out the dust cover. There are 2 wires on the coil (I'll get to that in a minute)- just unscrew them. Be careful not to strip them! They are likely a bit worn from age. Next, remove the 2 larger screws on the top of the coil shown here:
Image


Now you can pull the coil out of the distributor:
Image


Next is the ICM or ignition control module (also called the Ignitor). Think of it like a VERY expensive relay. What it does is control the amount of time that the coil is charged with +12V (this is known as ignition dwell) as well as remove that voltage thus creating the spark. The ICM is also responsible for creating the tachometer signal. This is why it is a very good sign when the tachometer is acting up, it is time to replace the ICM.

The ICM has 4 wires connected to it. They are: +12V, coil control wire, tachometer output, and input from the ECU. The ICM is grounded externally through the body.
Image


To take the ICM out, first remove these 4 wires. It's fairly easy to determine which one goes where due to their respective orientation. Then, there are 2 screws holding it in:
Image


Here's a better picture of the ICM:
Image


Now that our cars are getting older, I am seeing more and more ICMs that are going dead. Some symptoms are:
-Random tachometer jumping
-A completely unresponsive tachometer
-The engine suddenly shutting off while driving- you will be rolling and still in gear...but the tach may or not be responding, and you will have little or no power.

The OEM Honda ignition system is sensitive. While I have seen several ignition modifiers (MSD, Crane, etc) and external coils used with success, I have seen WAY more that cause problems. I have personally seen an external MSD coil kill 2 ICMs on my old car. It has been proven over and over that the OEM ignition system will hold up to VERY large amounts of power. I am in no way saying that these aftermarket products are bad in any way, I am simply saying that the Honda ICM was made to work with the Honda coil, and they work very well in harmony. Don't go buy a hot new igntion box or coil...just replace the parts of your OEM system.

Next lets follow that spark generated by the coil's secondary windings. It comes out of that tower on the front of the coil, travels into the cap, down the front of the cap, out of the cap into the rotor, then out to each of the ignition wires.
Image


Re-installation is exactly the opposite as removal. Just make sure to get the correct wires on the correct terminals. The Coil wires are shaped differently- a circle goes to +12V on the harness, the square is the single wire that goes to the ICM. Also, the ICM wires are a set length so they terminate in a certain position, so it's fairly easy to replace them correctly.

I did not show the rotor or dust cap in this article. The rotor can fail as well. While normal wear and tear is normal to the contact surface, I have seen rotor screws come out, and the rotor to fall off the shaft. This will cause the engine not to run at all, and likely cause some physical damage to the rotor itself, and possibly something else. Take care when installing the rotor on the distributor shaft. You cannot install it incorrectly, BUT, I would recomend using some loctite (blue-medium) on the rotor screw as some added security against failure.

I recomend (as does Honda) that you replace the ignition components at regular intervals. At least do the cap and rotor every year or so (I'm anal).
 
#4 · (Edited)
Now for the assembly of the new one!!

This is done with an OBD-1 LS distributer.
So instead of buying the whole distributor assembly for ~$500 I figured I would save about ~$120 and just buy the parts and assemble it myself. As you can see from the following image, instead of buying part #1, I just bought the housing/sensors (part #4), the coil-#12, the ignitor-#8, and cap, rotor, screw, and dust cover- #2, #3, #11, #6 respectively.
Image


Unfortunately, as I figured, there were a few parts that you just could not get unless you spend the extra ~$120. It is just 6 screws, and 1 wire as seen here:

Image


The screws that are needed from another distributor (junk yard)
-2 screws to mount the coil in the distributor
-2 screws for the coil wire connections
-2 screws to mount the ingitor in the distributor
-1 wire from the ignitor to the (-) terminal on the coil

So here is everything that I ordered. It's soo nice and shiny!
Image


Here's some close ups of part #2- the assembly. It's basically the housing with the shaft and sensors pre-installed.

Image


Image


First thing I did was to install the coil. All you need to do is screw in the 2 screws. I used a small dab of Loctite Blue on the threads just because I'm anal.

Image


Next, you need to attach the wires from the assembly onto the ignitor. First do the input from the ECU (green/yellow):

Image


Next do the tachometer wire (blue).

Image


*Please note that I attached all wires to the ICM before screwing it down. I found it was a little easier to get the tach wire on this way.

Next is the +12V wire from the harness. Ensure that this wire is next to the first wire from the ECU (green/yellow). Either way, the last wire to the coil will not fit (not long enough) to the coil if you do it backwards.

Now that the ICM is wired, you can screw it down. Yes I used a small dab of Loctite Blue on the threads here, too.

Image


Lastly, the 2 wires on the coil. The connectors for these wires are shaped differently. The +12V from the harness is round, while the ground that runs to the ignitor is square. I can't imagine mixing these up, but DoN'T.

Image


Here's the finished product so far. Yay!

Image
 
#5 ·
said:
Lastly, the rotor. This should be straight forward enough...I recomend using Loctite on this one...even though, yes I know there is a lock washer on the screw, I don't know how many times I have seen the screw come off and the rotor grenade into 1,000 pieces.
LOL, x 2 Loctite all the way
 
#6 ·
I've had that happen. That screw tore through the dizzy and shorted the dizzy and my ECU. That was an expensive little fix. New dizzy and ECU were needed for that. Definately use a little loctite.
 
#8 ·
Assuming that this MSD cap eliminates the stock coil and routes the possitive and negative feeds to an external coil? The 2 wires that go to the stock coil are obviously the black/yellow and yellow wires that are screwed onto the coil.
 
#9 ·
You must have had some dizzy woes with aftermarket/remanufactured distributors??? The one I got from you is still working, was it aftermarket, same msd coil too?



***MSD** one is positive and one is negative........ look closely at the old coil. Make sure you have good connections with your new wires and hook them up to the corresponding wires on the external coil.
 
#11 ·
Vance- what you got from me was a partial reman. The housing and sensors were "rebuilt" but the ICM and rotor/cap were OEM Honda. The MSD coil was obviously not- that was from back in the days when I didn't realize that the OEM Honda Ignition system will support 500+ whp.
 
#16 ·
There are 2 seals...one on the inside- this is a standard oil seal much like the front and rear oil seals on the block. This one...good luck getting at to remove...and not to mention, I don't think Honda even sells it seperately. I don't think it should ever need to be changed...and I've never seen or heard of it being changed... It's not even noted here:

Image


The second seal is actually the O-ring- part 7 in the picture above. This one is simple to change...you don't need to take off the cam key or anything.
 
#17 ·
JRutski on Apr/08/09 said:
There are 2 seals...one on the inside- this is a standard oil seal much like the front and rear oil seals on the block. This one...good luck getting at to remove...and not to mention, I don't think Honda even sells it seperately. I don't think it should ever need to be changed...and I've never seen or heard of it being changed... It's not even noted here:
The inner seal can be changed. I've done it. Honda doesn't sell the part, but it can be procured from other sources. I think I got mine at prostreetonline.

I just can't quite remember how I got it out, but from the pic above, it looks fairly simple. I did have to completely tear apart the dizzy. Looks like there are 3 screws to remove that plate, and then the shaft can come free.

I'm looking to replace the shaft bearing now, so if anybody knows where to get one of those, I'd appreciate it. I've found them for 90-93 'Tegs, but I don't know it's actually the same or not.
 
#20 ·
i hope someone looks at this reply..but ive been searching and searching until i found this thread but my engine light is on and the code is p1381 which is cylinder position sensor. the car has been in the shop 3 months ago because i was driving and it jus shut off with no warning or light. come to find out it was the distributor so they changed it and exactly a week later it was doing the same thing so they put another distributor on it and its been running fine until a month later the engine light came on one day while driving and it was the crankshaft position sensor. cleared the code and jus a week ago the light came back but now its the cylinder position sensor. the car boggs down at lights and cuts off and starts right back up. im so confused because there brand new distributors and they keep failing.

the car is a 96 integra gsr 5spd
mods: header, catback exhaust, and aem filter. no major mods done

rick
 
#21 ·
So, this makes me wonder if my ICM is going bad...

It only seems to do it in cold weather, but my tach will be unresponsive until the car warms up, or sometimes it just won't correct itself at all. The problem is intermittent, so it's hard to diagnose. Basically, sometimes in cold weather, my tach is a *****. Do you think its an ICM issue, or possible something in the actual cluster? Could I check this with a MM?

Thanks for the help and great article!

Zack
 
#22 ·
b18cFTW on Apr/12/10 said:
i hope someone looks at this reply..but ive been searching and searching until i found this thread but my engine light is on and the code is p1381 which is cylinder position sensor. the car has been in the shop 3 months ago because i was driving and it jus shut off with no warning or light. come to find out it was the distributor so they changed it and exactly a week later it was doing the same thing so they put another distributor on it and its been running fine until a month later the engine light came on one day while driving and it was the crankshaft position sensor. cleared the code and jus a week ago the light came back but now its the cylinder position sensor. the car boggs down at lights and cuts off and starts right back up. im so confused because there brand new distributors and they keep failing.

the car is a 96 integra gsr 5spd
mods: header, catback exhaust, and aem filter. no major mods done

rick
If by brand new do you mean "brand-new-remanufactured" or Brand new OEM Honda (Nec\Tec)??

I have seen remans that cause these problems- I would not cheap out on the distributor.

Was the timing set correctly? This is clearly a distributor issue...
 
#23 ·
LSDriver98 on Apr/12/10 said:
So, this makes me wonder if my ICM is going bad...

It only seems to do it in cold weather, but my tach will be unresponsive until the car warms up, or sometimes it just won't correct itself at all. The problem is intermittent, so it's hard to diagnose. Basically, sometimes in cold weather, my tach is a *****. Do you think its an ICM issue, or possible something in the actual cluster? Could I check this with a MM?

Thanks for the help and great article!

Zack
I would almost guarantee with 99.89% certainty that it is the ICM- it is what drives the tach- and I strongly doubt the gauge itself is going bad. The problem can be completely intermittent too.
 
#24 ·
JRutski on Apr/13/10 said:
Quote: b18cFTW on Apr/12/10i hope someone looks at this reply..but ive been searching and searching until i found this thread but my engine light is on and the code is p1381 which is cylinder position sensor. the car has been in the shop 3 months ago because i was driving and it jus shut off with no warning or light. come to find out it was the distributor so they changed it and exactly a week later it was doing the same thing so they put another distributor on it and its been running fine until a month later the engine light came on one day while driving and it was the crankshaft position sensor. cleared the code and jus a week ago the light came back but now its the cylinder position sensor. the car boggs down at lights and cuts off and starts right back up. im so confused because there brand new distributors and they keep failing.
the car is a 96 integra gsr 5spd
mods: header, catback exhaust, and aem filter. no major mods done

rick


If by brand new do you mean "brand-new-remanufactured" or Brand new OEM Honda (Nec\Tec)??

I have seen remans that cause these problems- I would not cheap out on the distributor.

Was the timing set correctly? This is clearly a distributor issue...
the distributor outside looked brand new im not sure about the housing and all the sensors. i dropped it off at a local shop. trust me i didnt cheap out on the distributor. but im not not sure about the timing either. how would you knoe if the timing is set correctly?

thanks for the reply, rick
 
#25 ·
JRutski on Apr/13/10 said:
Quote: LSDriver98 on Apr/12/10So, this makes me wonder if my ICM is going bad...
It only seems to do it in cold weather, but my tach will be unresponsive until the car warms up, or sometimes it just won't correct itself at all. The problem is intermittent, so it's hard to diagnose. Basically, sometimes in cold weather, my tach is a *****. Do you think its an ICM issue, or possible something in the actual cluster? Could I check this with a MM?

Thanks for the help and great article!

Zack


I would almost guarantee with 99.89% certainty that it is the ICM- it is what drives the tach- and I strongly doubt the gauge itself is going bad. The problem can be completely intermittent too.
Well then I will be replacing this soon. From a performance standpoint, would I have any power gains from replacing it? Or would I gain some fuel economy?

Thanks again for the help man!
 
#26 ·
LSDriver98 on Apr/13/10 said:
Well then I will be replacing this soon. From a performance standpoint, would I have any power gains from replacing it? Or would I gain some fuel economy?

Thanks again for the help man!
Doubtful on performance...usually, it either works, or doesn't...whereas things like plugs wear over time.