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Old 01-29-2012, 11:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Hondata Boost by Gear talk

I am working with the Hondata boost by gear setup and wanted to share my experience and setup and see if we can get a better resource for it on this site.

My setup is internally wastegated which I was a little nervous about since Hondata recommends an external wastegate and does not show how to hook an internal one up even. (Anybody with an external wastegate setup feel free to add any setup notes.)



I had a local to GA authorized Hondata shop try and setup the boost solenoid and they ended up just charging me for more tuning time and said they could not get it to work and to just do a manual boost controller.

The second authorized Hondata shop said that it was laggy and not worth doing and to buy a standalone EBC so I decided to try it myself. I don't have another electronic boost controller to compare it to but it seems very responsive to me.

I upgraded my S100 to the S300 and bought a mac boost solenoid off of ebay for ~$40. The first shop that wired it up did not fuse it or put the diode on it. I added the diode and fuse. I was having trouble getting it to work and then realized that I had disconnected the wire to the ecu for it thinking it was the wideband.

Anyways, I was able to find online what the settings should be inside the S300. This screenshot is what I am running right now. The boost seems to run 1.5PSI to 1PSI higher than what I set in here. I need to do some runs and datalog with it set at different duty cycles so I can adjust the pressure vs. duty cycle table but stock out of the box it is pretty close to right on(colder weather could be causing it to be off a little more too). It is also confusing the way there is a check box for variable freq. when to have variable freq. you want the box unchecked. Hondata is great but their documentation is terrible and the way they word things is confusing sometimes. (either that or it is written in a way that pros understand) My wastegate spring is 9PSI but with the extra tubing going to the solenoid, it will run 10PSI when set to 0. Being cold out I already have traction issues in first and second so I did that for 1st of 2nd. 3rd even gives me a little issue I think mostly because the power hits so hard and then tapers off some. I have not had a chance to try out the below settings yet to see if it helps. I had 3rd gear set to 13.5psi and it would go to 15PSI at 4600rpm and then settle down to 14.4 at 5600rpm.
I set the activation pressure high because I don't want the solenoid running unless it has to so as to not wear it out as fast.

Let me know any feedback or questions you have. I will add pictures above tomorrow to show how I have it tubed up, etc.

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Old 01-30-2012, 10:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I spent way too much time trying to get this to work. I used a non-hondata MAC controller, but supposedly the same one Hondata rebrands. I tested the EBC and it worked fine manually feeding it the right voltages.

When testing it out with Hondata, it would be extremely laggy, and my car would hit boost cut if hammering it in anything less than 4th.

Glad to see its working for you.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker8235 View Post
Will add picture here of solenoid setup.....


I added the diode and fuse.

i want to see how you have this fuse hooked up. im still new to the boost by gear and i need to know as much info as to how to set it up. when i told my tuner i want him to set it up on my car he kind of sighed a little lol
not sure if its something that is just time consuming or what
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by migee View Post
I spent way too much time trying to get this to work. I used a non-hondata MAC controller, but supposedly the same one Hondata rebrands. I tested the EBC and it worked fine manually feeding it the right voltages.

When testing it out with Hondata, it would be extremely laggy, and my car would hit boost cut if hammering it in anything less than 4th.

Glad to see its working for you.
How long ago was this? I did wonder if maybe hondata upgraded the software some to make things better since the second shop had messed with it or if the diode helped things.

What was your wastegate setup? Were you doing fixed duty cycle or trying it with gear based?
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by justYncredible View Post
i want to see how you have this fuse hooked up. im still new to the boost by gear and i need to know as much info as to how to set it up. when i told my tuner i want him to set it up on my car he kind of sighed a little lol
not sure if its something that is just time consuming or what
Funny you mentioned that because my tuner also sighed a bit when I had asked him to get it setup. I'm also using a MAC solenoid (though it should be the same as the Hondata unit) and I'm somewhat getting the idea that each solenoid can behave differently.

Although I believe the relationship should be fairly linear, it still takes time to find the correct duty cycle for targeted boost. We only found what I needed and didn't bother to find more.

This is my setup on S300...


The numbers seem high for a stock motor but mainly because there's some pressure lost after the heat exchange; I'm only registering 11.5~12PSI at the MAP.
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tucker8235 View Post
How long ago was this? I did wonder if maybe hondata upgraded the software some to make things better since the second shop had messed with it or if the diode helped things.

What was your wastegate setup? Were you doing fixed duty cycle or trying it with gear based?
Last summer. I had the diode in. I just did some searching not long ago and now I saw from their forum admin that generally it should actually be left out. Maybe I'll give it another go next time to see what happens.

Waste gate is internal. Was just doing fixed duty cycle to get the basics.

e: hondata forum post link

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Old 01-30-2012, 04:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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keep the info coming! not much data on the net about this.
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Old 01-30-2012, 05:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I really need to reinstall my BBG solenoid lol
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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What W/G spring are you using compared to PSI you want on the turbo?

back in the day I used a 3lb spring to do 7 psi -14 psi for boost by gear(AEM not hondata). When I switch to a 10lb spring I was unable to control 10-14psi. 10 psi was anywhere from 9-12 and 14 was 14-18.

I think that having a small spring would be helpful with controlling everything better.

But since than I have switch to Co2 and a not cheap controller, so I have no idea how things would work with today's software
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by migee View Post
Last summer. I had the diode in. I just did some searching not long ago and now I saw from their forum admin that generally it should actually be left out. Maybe I'll give it another go next time to see what happens.

Waste gate is internal. Was just doing fixed duty cycle to get the basics.

e: hondata forum post link
It is very frustrating to work with. I posted up how I have mine tubed. The first shop that was trying to get it to work complained of the same issues you had. I was thinking they had it hooked up wrong but I'm not sure. I know they were trying different ports to try and make it work. It would be nice to verify if the diode is really needed or not. They still show it under help in the SManager 1.5.4.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by asianzt View Post
Funny you mentioned that because my tuner also sighed a bit when I had asked him to get it setup. I'm also using a MAC solenoid (though it should be the same as the Hondata unit) and I'm somewhat getting the idea that each solenoid can behave differently.

Although I believe the relationship should be fairly linear, it still takes time to find the correct duty cycle for targeted boost. We only found what I needed and didn't bother to find more.

This is my setup on S300...


The numbers seem high for a stock motor but mainly because there's some pressure lost after the heat exchange; I'm only registering 11.5~12PSI at the MAP.
Are the boost pressures set lower on yours from 5-7K rpm to help with boost spikes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cluelessmale View Post
What W/G spring are you using compared to PSI you want on the turbo?

back in the day I used a 3lb spring to do 7 psi -14 psi for boost by gear(AEM not hondata). When I switch to a 10lb spring I was unable to control 10-14psi. 10 psi was anywhere from 9-12 and 14 was 14-18.

I think that having a small spring would be helpful with controlling everything better.

But since than I have switch to Co2 and a not cheap controller, so I have no idea how things would work with today's software
I read that you can only go so much higher than your wastegate spring like 2x wastegate so if you have a 9lbs spring the max psi you could do would be ~18PSI. A lower wastegate spring would be great for our fwd cars to have traction in earlier gears but then that limits your max psi you can run.

Last edited by codenamezero; 01-30-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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You should be able to use any spring as long as you are want more boost then any spring, since when hooking up both sides see the same PSI and when the valve closes it will make a pressure difference thus opening the wastegate.

Unless you are having a lot of back pressure, but these I do not really think anyone on the streets are 4 to1
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Can you post an actual picture of this diode? I like pictures, lol
As for the vacuum lines being ran, could I just route all the lines to a vacuum manifold minus the the boost solenoid coming off the too of the wastegate? I know that was slightly off topic but I need to know
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Can you post an actual picture of this diode? I like pictures, lol
As for the vacuum lines being ran, could I just route all the lines to a vacuum manifold minus the the boost solenoid coming off the too of the wastegate? I know that was slightly off topic but I need to know
I ran my vacuum/boost source from a vacuum manifold that's fed in through the brake booster. Main reason of doing that is because my turbo did not have a tapped feed (and I didn't want to tap it or the intercooler piping). However, you'll have to consider that by doing that - it'll be a slightly delayed response.

At the same time, all you really need is a stable source since you're going to be playing around with the duty cycles to get desired boost; wherever you can get it, go for it. For the most precise source, anywhere from the compressor housing to before the intercooler should work.

Last edited by asianzt; 01-31-2012 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:50 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asianzt View Post
I ran my vacuum/boost source from a vacuum manifold that's fed in through the brake booster. Main reason of doing that is because my turbo did not have a tapped feed (and I didn't want to tap it or the intercooler piping). However, you'll have to consider that by doing that - it'll be a slightly delayed response.

At the same time, all you really need is a stable source since you're going to be playing around with the duty cycles to get desired boost; wherever you can get it, go for it. For the most precise source, anywhere from the compressor housing to before the intercooler should work.
My tuner prefers off the intake manifold or the vacuum manifold. He stated the pressure at the compressor housing isn't the same at the manifold. Not sure how much it differs but I do know you want an accurate reading

And now back to our regularly program topic
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