Hondata Boost by Gear talk

[cluelessmale]

[NoLimits]

So you can T in to the pressure line.. Im still tryna understand the pressure vs duty cycles and how to set it correctly.. Like 1st n 2nd on Asianzt's build is at 10 but after 3rd it raises to 15 then as the rpm rises, pressure decreases.. But on Tucker825's build 1st n 2nd are set to 0, then after 3rd rises, why is this? Wish it was easy as pi, but Can't get a noob answer lol??? Basically what is duty cycle n to what/how should it be set-up...
Or a link on this topic would be great cause I can't find Shhhht n Noobies dnt ever really understand the way hondata words things

[cluelessmale]

Try changing the values a little and take it for a drive and see what the changes do.

0 means open so just off WG spring
anything higher means the value will turn on and off thus making the WG see less pressure causing it to open for later

[fcluddington]

Originally Posted by NoLimits

So you can T in to the pressure line.. Im still tryna understand the pressure vs duty cycles and how to set it correctly.. Like 1st n 2nd on Asianzt's build is at 10 but after 3rd it raises to 15 then as the rpm rises, pressure decreases.. But on Tucker825's build 1st n 2nd are set to 0, then after 3rd rises, why is this? Wish it was easy as pi, but Can't get a noob answer lol??? Basically what is duty cycle n to what/how should it be set-up...
Or a link on this topic would be great cause I can't find Shhhht n Noobies dnt ever really understand the way hondata words things

Duty cycles is the amount the Mac valve actually cycles allowing boost air to hold or open a WG. The reason nobody can give exact numbers to you. every set up is different. size of line boost sense line, your mani, your turbo, your wg, etc. I changed only my turbo to a slightly larger one and none of my "duty cycles" were even close. That is why you must change your own duty cycle value and see where you can get it to hold a set psi. "Your boost psi" Also it is not linear.
Hope this helps ,, others have given great advice on setting them up to you and this is not easy to get dialed in. Good Luck

[asianzt]

Originally Posted by NoLimits

So you can T in to the pressure line.. Im still tryna understand the pressure vs duty cycles and how to set it correctly.. Like 1st n 2nd on Asianzt's build is at 10 but after 3rd it raises to 15 then as the rpm rises, pressure decreases.. But on Tucker825's build 1st n 2nd are set to 0, then after 3rd rises, why is this? Wish it was easy as pi, but Can't get a noob answer lol??? Basically what is duty cycle n to what/how should it be set-up...
Or a link on this topic would be great cause I can't find Shhhht n Noobies dnt ever really understand the way hondata words things

Without actually monitoring your PSI when tuning or testing - you wont really know what you're actually getting at the manifold. Once you have made the correlation of duty cycle to certain PSI, you can use the PSI numbers (because Hondata will make that connection).

In my setup, 10PSI is set for 1st and 2nd because that's what I found to work best during tuning. Unfortunately, I would have set it at zero if I didn't have horrible boost creep; I can't run really low boost pressures (A/C ramhorn).

In 3rd and up, the pressure is set very high in hopes of letting the boost build asap and then adjusting the PSI numbers in Hondata to maintain the wanted tq curve. What I'm actually seeing at the manifold is roughly 11.5PSI from 4k-8.3K RPM.

If my motor was built - I would be raising the boost as RPM raises but as a reliability measure for the completely stock B18C1, this is how it is setup.

[cluelessmale]

From reading some stuff on line, the people that are having the best luck with this PBG they are using the 4 port valve, that way that have all the pressure going to the top of the gate holding it closed, and than when it is 12v all the pressure is on the lower part of the gate openning up the WG.

But no one seems to be running an internal WG, maybe the DSM people might have more of an idea about this.

[Da1witskilz]

I just finished the basic install of my boost solenoid. I'm also using the MAC solenoid from ebay but I didn't have the same luck as a lot of people. It turns out not all MAC solenoids are the same. On my internal wastegate setup, the only way to get the solenoid to work was to set it up as follows:

Port 1: Vent
Port 2: Boost pressure source (off the turbo housing)
Port 3: Wastegate pressure source

Interchanging port 1 and 3 doesn't allow any boost pressure to reach the wastegate when the boost control is turned off which means that the wastegate never opens when the boost control is turned off.

I have it set so that 0% is lowest boost pressure and 100% is maximum. As for the frequency of the solenoid signal, after a lot of research I found that setting the frequency around 20-30hz will allows you to make more subtle adjustments in boost pressure when running low amounts of boost (say 8-12psi) but if you want to run a larger range of boost you can just use a higher frequency to allow for a larger boost range (ex. 8-22psi). You'll probably want to set the frequency so that your maximum target boost occurs at around 70% duty cycle so your duty cycle table will have a wide spectrum which should help keep your boost from fluctuating too far from the target.

[NoLimits]

Originally Posted by fcluddington

Duty cycles is the amount the Mac valve actually cycles allowing boost air to hold or open a WG. The reason nobody can give exact numbers to you. every set up is different. size of line boost sense line, your mani, your turbo, your wg, etc. I changed only my turbo to a slightly larger one and none of my "duty cycles" were even close. That is why you must change your own duty cycle value and see where you can get it to hold a set psi. "Your boost psi" Also it is not linear.
Hope this helps ,, others have given great advice on setting them up to you and this is not easy to get dialed in. Good Luck

Originally Posted by asianzt

Without actually monitoring your PSI when tuning or testing - you wont really know what you're actually getting at the manifold. Once you have made the correlation of duty cycle to certain PSI, you can use the PSI numbers (because Hondata will make that connection).

Word! That makes wayy more sense! Glad I have my gauges, shiet I see why people want soo many... to monitor everything going on at all times.. n for tuning, essentials to tuning! Can't wait to get to mess around with my s300 n get as perfect as can be for a stock b18b. Gotta better understanding now! Gunna keep researching til I can put what I've learned/learning, really appreciate it

[tucker8235]

I am having trouble with the values set at 0, the boost solenoid is still turning on a little bit. It shows it running a 19% duty cycle in gears where it is set to 0. I tried setting it to a negative 14.7 but that made it hit boost cut. Any ideas for keeping the solenoid completely off in some gears?
*Edit* I just realized I could put in 0% duty on the pressure vs Duty Cycle table for my first column and we'll see if that turns off the solenoid for anything set under 4.9psi.

[fcluddington]

I copied this from Hondata's page. I think they do a pretty good job describing how to get started.

The ECU produces a square wave at a fixed frequency and variable duty cycle. Applied to a solenoid, the impedance of the solenoid results in a linear motion of the solenoid valve orifice.

The wastegate is normally connected so that manifold pressure acts on a diaphragm, so opening an exhaust bleed valve (the wastegate) at a certain manifold pressure. With a boost controller, additional air pressure is used on the other side ('the top') of the diaphragm, so that more manifold pressure is needed to open the wastegate - so the engine makes more boost. By varying the amount of air pressure on the 'top' side of the diaphragm with the solenoid, the ECU can control boost.

Because the solenoid can only add air pressure to hold the wastegate shut, the minimum boost is determined by the wastegate spring pressure. Therefore you need to run a spring which gives the minimum boost you want. The maximum boost is determined by many factors, but generally will be 2-4 times that of the minimum pressure.

Tuning

Most important: first set a boost limiter which is the maximum you wish to run, making sure you do not set a limit that exceeds the limits of your map sensor.
Record the boost without the boost control solenoid in place. If you ever want to run less boost than the recorded value, replace the spring and repeat.
Connect the boost control solenoid, enable the ECU output and set the duty cycle to 1%. Record the boost level. Typically there should not be more than a 1 lb increase from the baseline.

You should not use values of 0% or 100% as it will not work.

Add 5% to the duty cycle and record the boost over the rev range. At around 20% duty cycle the boost level should start to increase with each run. Record the duty cycle and corresponding boost level. If the boost spikes or falls off, check the solenoid plumbing.
Keep increasing the duty cycle until you have reached the maximum boost level you/your engine/your turbo/your injectors/the dyno can handle.
Enter the duty cycle and boost values into the parameters 'Pressure vs Duty Cycle' table. This tells the ECU what duty cycle it needs to obtain a certain manifold pressure.
In the 'Boost by Gear' table enter your target boost for each gear. If you want high/low boost settings, enter your alternate boost values in the second 'Boost by Gear' table and set up an external switch under 'Low/High Boost Control'.
Check your gear ratios are correct.
Test by datalogging. The duty cycle is recorded and can be compared to the target tables. Any problems usually arise from the way the solenoid and wastegate are connected - check these first.

[justYncredible]

simple and yes silly question

low boost high boost can be activated by turning on or off the A/C correct??
yes i have a MAC boost solenoid but hondata is my boost controller

[DPancoast]

I just got my car tuned finally with bbg. I'll have to put up a pic of my setup. Works very well.

The only thing is that I am not using top and bottom Wastegate ports, only the bottom.



And yes you can use your a/c switch to go from high/low but you just have to enable it in the menu.

I was also wondering if anyone has found a good boost level for launching? I know it differs by setup/suspension/tires but I was gonna mess with it this weekend

[justYncredible]

DP
thanks for posting the picture. i may have to change somethings in my setup so i can utilize everything with this feature. i think some things in my settings need to be changed

[DPancoast]

Yeah I may have to talk to the tuner that did my car. I hit boost cut way too much and I've even lowered the max target boost. It's quite annoying