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Old 06-16-2005, 01:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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sadly no one in my area carries these plugs and they have to be ordered..

does anyone know another more common plug that will give me equal performance for a supercharged application?

FYI: these copper plugs have a heat range of 7 but i have been told by numerous people that I can run heat range 6 for my low boost application (8 psi)

are all copper heat range plugs created equal?

meaning if i were to put another brand's heat range 7 copper plug in my car would it cause problems?
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Old 06-16-2005, 02:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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http://www.clubplug.net/

I got my V-Power racing coppers online form these guys.

King motorsports sells the VPower racing plugs in all heat ranges as well if you are looking for a reputable place that everyone knows.


I would go to an R5671A NGK and see how you like them. I would try a #7 or even a #8 range if your boost is high enough.

The other option is to go with an Iridium NGK no. 7 since you are FI.

the cost is pretty close.

yes the heat ranges are the same across brands for a car model. you know what the heat range means right?
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Old 06-17-2005, 07:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Like MD said, I sure hope you know what heat range means because you are not going in the right direction of heat ranges, especially for boost.
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Old 06-17-2005, 09:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sak on Jun/17/05
Like MD said, I sure hope you know what heat range means because you are not going in the right direction of heat ranges, especially for boost.



how so?.. i was under the impression that the objective is to run as hot a heat range plug as you can without getting detonation.. i was told the stock heat range for most hondas is 5.. and for low boost applications you can usually get away with a heat range 6 because it is one step colder.. heat range 7 is common for moderate amounts of boost and high boost applications usually use heat rage 8.. am i in correct in saying this?

i appreciate the help i am recieving i am just trying to make sure i have the correct information
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Old 06-17-2005, 02:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You've got two guys that have had superchargers and we're both telling you're going the wrong way in heat range.

Do what you think is best for your engine.
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Old 06-17-2005, 02:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I didn't want to insult anyone's intelligence on this basic topic but here are the explanations. btw it was my mistake on the reply regarding brands and heat ranges since I forgot about Champion and Autolite plugs which I never have used . I was comparing NGK to Bosch.:

Quote:
Originally Posted by from NGK.com FAQ
NGK vs Other Brands (eg. Autolite).:




After you have identified the numbering system for your plug, merely raise or lower that number to change the heat range.

REMEMBER, NGK PLUGS GET COLDER THE HIGHER THE NUMBER, HOTTER THE LOWER THE NUMBER.
Heat ranges are not the same between brands.

Say you are starting with a BKR6E-11
if you want a colder plug, you would use BKR7E-11
if you want a hotter plug, you would use BKR5E-11
(again, on non-racing plugs, the number after the "-" refers to the gap)






The term spark plug heat range refers to the speed with which the plug can transfer heat from the combustion chamber to the engine head. Whether the plug is to be installed in a boat, lawnmower or racecar, it has been found the optimum combustion chamber temperature for gasoline engines is between 500°C–850°C. When it is within that range it is cool enough to avoid pre-ignition and plug tip overheating (which can cause engine damage), while still hot enough to burn off combustion deposits which cause fouling.

The spark plug can help maintain the optimum combustion chamber temperature. The primary method used to do this is by altering the internal length of the core nose, in addition, the alloy compositions in the electrodes can be changed. This means you may not be able to visually tell a difference between heat ranges. When a spark plug is referred to as a “cold plug”, it is one that transfers heat rapidly from the firing tip into the engine head, which keeps the firing tip cooler. A “hot plug” has a much slower rate of heat transfer, which keeps the firing tip hotter.

An unaltered engine will run within the optimum operating range straight from the manufacturer, but if you make modifications such as a turbo, supercharger, increase compression, timing changes, use of alternate racing fuels, or sustained use of nitrous oxide, these can alter the plug tip temperature and may necessitate a colder plug. A rule of thumb is, one heat range colder per modification or one heat range colder for every 75–100hp you increase. In identical spark plug types, the difference from one full heat range to the next is the ability to remove 70°C to 100°C from the combustion chamber.

The heat range numbers used by spark plug manufacturers are not universal, by that we mean, a 10 heat range in Champion is not the same as a 10 heat range in NGK nor the same in Autolite. Some manufacturers numbering systems are opposite the other, for domestic manufacturers (Champion, Autolite, Splitfire), the higher the number, the hotter the plug. For Japanese manufacturers (NGK, Denso), the higher the number, the colder the plug.

Do not make spark plug changes at the same time as another engine modification such as injection, carburetion or timing changes as in the event of poor results, it can lead to misleading and inaccurate conclusions (an exception would be when the alternate plugs came as part of a single precalibrated upgrade kit). When making spark plug heat range changes, it is better to err on the side of too cold a plug. The worst thing that can happen from too cold a plug is a fouled spark plug, too hot a spark plug can cause severe engine damage.

How do I cross reference a spark plug from another brand into NGK?

Type the part number you wish to cross-reference into the PART NUMBER/CROSS-REFERENCE.
DO NOT include the manufacturers name in the part #
In other words if you are crossing over an AC MR43T, you would put in MR43T, NOT ACMR43T.

You will be supplied with the equivalent part number, or if the part number you selected is common with more than one manufacturer, you will be asked what brand you are crossing from.


Can I use platinum plugs with nitrous injection?

No, it is not suggested to use platinum plugs with nitrous oxide injection.

There have been instances where the platinum tip has lost its bond to either the center or ground electrode when they were used in a motor with nitrous.

Thus far the tech's say they have had no problems using Iridium plugs with nitrous.


Can I use Iridium plugs with nitrous injection or a blown alcohol motor?

Yes, and Yes.

We double checked with the tech’s on this one, they say, while they have been watching for problems, thus far, there has been no reports of any problems in using iridium plugs with a nitrous system.

There should not be any problems using Iridium with a blown alcohol motor .
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Old 06-17-2005, 04:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gvtec on Jun/17/05
You've got two guys that have had superchargers and we're both telling you're going the wrong way in heat range.

Do what you think is best for your engine.

Hold up a second man.. im not at all going against your advice.. i just explained what i THOUGHT was how it works.. obviously i am wrong.. so please clarify what plugs you ran when you were supercharged

i would never go against trusted advice but you and sak said i was going in the wrong direction but you didnt explain what was the right direction

md thank you for the illistration
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Old 06-17-2005, 05:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one-Sik-Teg on Jun/17/05
i was under the impression that the objective is to run as hot a heat range plug as you can without getting detonation.. i was told the stock heat range for most hondas is 5.. and for low boost applications you can usually get away with a heat range 6 because it is one step colder.. heat range 7 is common for moderate amounts of boost and high boost applications usually use heat rage 8.. am i in correct in saying this?


Quote: MichaelDelaney on Jun/17/05 REMEMBER, NGK PLUGS GET COLDER THE HIGHER THE NUMBER, HOTTER THE LOWER THE NUMBER.
Heat ranges are not the same between brands.

sak, gvtec.. please explain how i am going in the wrong direction when it seems like i am dead on the money after re-reading md's post about ngk plugs and heat ranges..
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Old 06-18-2005, 12:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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NGK BCPR7ES gapped about 0.034"

When you started talking about running a 6, which is stock for the VTEC crowd (NGK PFR6G), you're not running a colder plug and 5 is a hotter plug. A 7 is one step colder.

You can run a 6, but the tip-in detonation will show, depending on how agressive your timing is.
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Old 06-20-2005, 04:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelDelaney on Jun/16/05
I would go to an R5671A NGK and see how you like them. I would try a #7 or even a #8 range if your boost is high enough.
thanks for the suggestion mike, i went ahead and ordered a set of R5671A-7's today.. i will let you know how it goes once i recieve them
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Old 06-22-2005, 07:16 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I think the problem here lies in how you stated your question. You used the term "HOT" plug. What you want is a colder plug, NOT hotter. It seems as if your second explaination is going correct that you want a colder plug with more boost.

Neouser had a SC B18b @ 6psi and ran a 8 heat range plug. From what he told me, it didn't have any problems for him. But 7 would be a good starting point before moving any colder. Those racing plugs mentioned are good and cheap as well.
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