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Old 02-03-2012, 02:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default B20b dyno results - budget build







First of all I wanted to give thanks to the following people:

Tou - P.R.E
Keep in mind I only have 6 people who I completely trust with my friendship, cars & money and Tou is one of them. I’ve known him & his younger brothers since Jr. High. Thanks for walking me through this engine build and sharing your knowledge.

Jordan – Jordantuned.com
Of also one of the 6 friends who I trust & care about. I’ve known for 8yrs. He’s always has my back making sure I don’t chew off more than I can handle when it comes to Hondas.

Pat – R.D.R
Same as above, one of the guys that I met 8yrs ago which we just seemed to connect well.
He’s always coached me along the way just like tou & Jordan. Pat is probably the best “teacher” I now when it comes to drawing things out & explaining how things works in simple terms. I’m still waiting for him to jump back in the game when he’s ready.

Chris & MAP
MAP provided the best rock bottom pricing & has flexible dyno hours.
Buy doing this, it helped us greatly with the our B20 rebuild goals & data collecting.
Most importantly, Chris does care about the local honda guys. He's genuinely ask good questions about Honda which he's still learning & chatted with the guys who came out to watch/support.





This is my brother, Alex’s motor car which was rebuilt after his jdm b20b I swapped in spun a bearing only after 8 months of heavy abuse from Alex. I use to have a build thread on mnhondas but I didn’t see any benefit to it due to fear of theft.

Nonetheless, I still wanted to show what can be accomplished with simple parts and knowledge. Before you ask my why I didn’t do B20V, I’ll just say because my little brother doesn’t deserve it yet. He needs to learn to appreciate how to make power before I just hand it over to him.

The plan was 2stage build:
1st stage is B20 rebuild with cams 155-160whp
2nd stage will be small turbo to hit 270-280whp = coming end of 2012




Here is the break down of general parts used:


JDM B20B 8.8:1cr (84x89)
ACL race bearings mains & rods ***MAP***
ARP rod bolts *** MAP***
ARP head studs *** MAP***

JDM B20B P75 head
Milled head - P.R.E spec to raise compression from 8.8 to 9.7cr
RDR “Pat” race spec 5 angle valve job (no porting)
Delta 272 cams
Rocketmotorsports spark plugs
Rocketmotorsports snap-fit valve springs

Stock seats & retainers
Ebay cam gears
Blox intake manifold & B18a1 58mm throttle body
Ebay Tri-Y replica header “small tube” 2.5” collector
2.20” crush bent exhaust piping





Baseline pull vs. last pull
Jordan came over 9pm Wednesday to provide base map & 20mins of street tuning. We put it through a few hours of driving & made sure he engine sealed up well 215psi across the board.


Alex’s B20b vs. jdm B16a2 (decent header, intake, exhaust & tuned)
This is why I dislike b16 for NA. Most people pay $1900-2200 for a jdm b16 swap + money for bolt ons and still doesn't have a usable powerband. IMHO I'd only build a B16a NA as a practice car lapping/drag or teaching my sons how to drive cause those suckers never seem to die or hardly spin bearings.


Alex’s B20b vs. my b18c1 gsr
This is back during 2009 MAP dyno day in the summer.
GSR with skunk2 IM, gsr tb, hondata gasket, stock header, 60mm rsr full exhast. Back when we swapped in the BONE STOCK B20B (no header) 6500rpm redline, Alex's DA B20 2550lbs still killed my EF Si GSR 2300lbs in any racing conditon up to about 80-85mph in 4th. I know this new motor would certainly kill most GSR swaped civic up to 100mph.



The final results speak for themselves.
You don't need a lot of money or fancy parts to make good power.
Don't chase other people, do reasearch, ask good questions and be realistic about what you can do financially & I promise MAP will help you out with best pricing on parts.






I'm no expert or not saying this is the only way to build it.
I'm just sharing you what we've done and you can take what you want from it.


I'm very pleased with the results & we were able to stay within budget.
This should be the standard of what budget NA b-nonvtec motors build should comprise of. Too many times I see people waste money on the wrong parts.

Considering b20b dyno at 128-130whp and 120tq
We spent
$160 on cams
$75 cam gears
$165 valvesprings
$170 header
$80 used block intake manifold

$650 in aftermarket parts for gains 25whp gains and 10-12tq is money well spent.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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here are some pictures of the build





reason for the tear down..... spun oem bearing cause rod bolt was loose





Ebay



Milled


Honed stock rods




delta 272










RMS - snap fit to oem retainers











************* EDIT ******* 3-5-2012


the results are great but not yet happy until i know the cams are degreeded in, larger TB than the dinky 58mm and portmatched....

So far +10whp over delta 272.... not to shabby


Rocket Motosports protoptype cams



Last edited by leclue19; 03-05-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
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thank you...finally somebody who agrees with me about the "weak16's"....i love your b20 build...i can only imagine what it would do with a gsr head and some more tuning.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'll be the first to say that I miss my b20z. That thing was just a big gob of torque all over and yours looks even better.

It was honestly more fun to drive than my turbo GSR.

Last edited by MeltMan; 02-03-2012 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:04 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Solid... Must be fun to launch
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Money well spend, I enjoy driving my b20z as a dd. can't wait till I put my Gsr head on.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Btw how are those cam gears? I was gonna get em for my LS head.
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Old 02-03-2012, 10:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeltMan View Post
I'll be the first to say that I miss my b20z. That thing was just a big gob of torque all over and yours looks even better.

It was honestly more fun to drive than my turbo GSR.
im in LOVE with my b20z right now, cant wait to give it a few goodies
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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oh man I wanna b20 so bad.
I been reading about this building option and looking at your post, I want it even more bro.
plus I like NAs.
good things.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Nice build. How much did the machine work (rebuild) cost?

Powerband looks fun. But, with regards to spending money in the right place, I'm surprised you didn't splurge on a 2.5" (mandrel bent) exhaust.
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Really nice build. How much did they have to mill off the head to get such a bump in compression? And what did you guys tune on? You could probably pick up a few horses with a better exhaust and a bigger throttle body but its still a great build.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I love b20 builds. As mentioned by stealth get a 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust. Your current exhaust is killing you.
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Old 02-04-2012, 02:19 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I made this build for my brother as a teaching tool.
So i thought it might help out many people who were newer or just not sure about things.


I'll try to answer he questions best I can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redxiii View Post
I love b20 builds. As mentioned by stealth get a 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust. Your current exhaust is killing you.
Well to be honest, I wanted to dyno it open header just to know where I would be with power IF i had a free flowing exhaust. But you must understand B vtec and B NONVTEC heads flow very different their for even if i'm reving it to 7500rpms it's not the same exhaust flow as a Bvtec head exhaust flow at 7500rpms. With that said I honestly think i might only gain 2whp with open down pipe if that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Da1witskilz View Post
Really nice build. How much did they have to mill off the head to get such a bump in compression? And what did you guys tune on? You could probably pick up a few horses with a better exhaust and a bigger throttle body but its still a great build.
Thanks for your kind words. My brother loves his new motor.
Since the b20b came with 8.8cr, we for sure wanted something higher to help with spool when boosted & not worried about running too much boost either.

So we decided to shave it by .055.....
yes that's a lot, but that's the only cost effective way to achieve what i wanted to achieve with out blowing the budget. Some people who didn't know shit "thought" it was a bad idea, but my head porting guy said it was a great idea because anytime you can shorten the quench area of the upper camber you'll get a tighter "space" for the fuel to burn/explode and drive the energy downward (which translates to power)

* note we did have to off set several items by .055mm as well since he head deck was shorter. This affected lower flange of header & ps bracket.
But it was nothing a dremel couldn't solve & a shorter V-belt at autozone.

It currently has a a Blox IM on it with the stock 58mm throttle body.
I had an extra 70mm tb in my collection of parts but honestly didn't think it was going to be a big deal. BUT after this dyno session i just might give that to him down the road.

A bigger & nicer exhaust would cost $300-400 min, and the gains would only be 1whp if that. So yes i could go with a nicer one but for now this works and I'm not sure many people would be willing to fork over $400 on a new exhasut if you KNEW it would only give you 1-2whp extra.

Keep in mind how you felt when you bought a $450 exhaust system that sounded cool but in reality it only gave you 4whp extra. yeah i hate that feeling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthpenguin View Post
Nice build. How much did the machine work (rebuild) cost?
Powerband looks fun. But, with regards to spending money in the right place, I'm surprised you didn't splurge on a 2.5" (mandrel bent) exhaust.
The 2.20" crush bent exhaust was already on the car, so i wasn't too worried about it.

I'm very confident that with a stock b20 block it would only cost me $650 to replicate it.

BUT because the motor did have to be rebuild there was additional cost.

$99 = ACL race bearings mains & rods
$20 = ARP rod bolts
$90 = ARP head studs
$150 = 5 angle race valve job (includes refacing valves) Pat's my good friend and he did his own port work on his 277whp 2.2bvtec setup.
$18 = RMS spark plugs
$40 = milled head
$60 = fresh hone
$0 = labor was free
$0 = tuning was free

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKZAcura View Post
Btw how are those cam gears? I was gonna get em for my LS head.
They are just like the other $250 cam gears. They work fine and I've always been super cautious and used locktite on the studs for cheap insurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillhere153 View Post
Solid... Must be fun to launch
Haven't tried it yet cause in MN the roads still suck.
I did buy him some 14" delsol rims which i will buy some slicks and have alex practice driving it at the track.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MeltMan View Post
I'll be the first to say that I miss my b20z. That thing was just a big gob of torque all over and yours looks even better.
It was honestly more fun to drive than my turbo GSR.
yes i completely agree with you on that.
I remember i drove the hell out of a d16a6 motor around cones and super curvy roads and I could attack the corners with 90% confidence in my control adn the car was faster, i drove faster and felt good.

The following week i take my other ef civic out with gsr swap and drive the same roads and I felt scared to even go WOT, sure i had more power, but I also mentally limited cause I didn't know how to use this power. The car was slower and i felt more fusterated and drained at the end of each run.

There is something very special about driving a underpowered car FAST WOT than driving a higher powered car slow with limited throttle.
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Old 02-04-2012, 02:40 AM   #14 (permalink)
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awesome build man. and i fully agree about the b16s. my DB7 (4 door) when i had the B18B in it kept up with my buddys 2 door teg with a b16 swap on the highway till about 80mph. i pulled that out and dropped a jdm b20 with the P8R head in and i can tell a good increase in power. one thing you may wanna consider before boost. you may have heard this but b20 sleeves are considerably thinner than b18 sleeves. i have heard horror stories of guys who boost them and not too long after the sleeves crack. you may wanna think about a sleeve job. at least golden eagle. who knows you may get lucky but i wouldnt risk it. you may not have put a lot of money in but im sure there was enough hard work to make this a heart breaker if something went wrong
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